How Can Wax Damage Clear Coats

If a detail in an effort to correct severe damage to a clear coat can wet or dry and the clear; or a body shop to take out orange peel or dust nibs wet or dry sand a clear coat.

And then both would buff out the sanding scratches with a compound, cutting pad and buffer and then swirl-remove and polish with a buffer and swirl remover.

How can someone say a wax will damage a clear coat?

All a wax has in it are waxes, either natural or synthetic, oils, solvent, colorant. What prey tel, is there that will damage a clear coat?

Anyone know?


Regards

Bud-
Waxes do not damage clearcoat or any other paint. If they did, the makers would face product liability suits every time a customer waxed a car...and I'd own Meguiar's by now ( LOL).

Doug

You know that. I know that, and I hope that most professional detailers know that.

Buffer Bill is the one that says waxes degrade and breakdown clear-coats.

Had hoped he would answer this post.

It appears you have read most of his other posts.

It is clear the posts are idiotic... why waste time on debating or disproving the uneducable.

Doug

First,I have never said that wax itself degrades or breaks down the clear coat.
What I have said all along is that by using wax that some type of abrasive will be needed in the form of a polish,compound,or swirl remover to remove the fine scratches,holograms,and swirls. <br>

I have heard all the reasons why swirl marks occur.Bad polishing methods,and using dirty water and harsh soaps are the two I hear most often.It is a fact that almost every car uses wax for shine and protection.Swirl marks and fine scratches have been a common complaint for many years,so is it so hard to believe that using wax will cause this condition.<br>


I really do not want to rehash all the reasons why wax is outdated.Stage 1 paints
are gone, and so should wax.The paints today are acrylic based,and the shiny part
is less the thickness of a human hair.It is extremely important IMO to put something on the surface that protects,and not wax which only offers shine and beading.<br>


I am hear to inform people that using an acrylic sealant instead of wax will
eliminate this condition. If you do not have swirls and fine scratches,well, correction is not needed.<br>

Why does an acrylic work better than wax for protection? AT-5 bonds directly to the clear coat, and becomes part of it.It will not allow anything to go through
it.<br>

Wax sticks to the surface, and when it breaks down for whatever reason the residue
of the coat applied shows swirls,holograms,and fine scratches.The clear coat is not damaged,but correction is needed to restore the shine.<br>


Try the product for yourselves,and you can decide if I am right. It surprises
me that Bud and many other gurus on these sites form an opinion before they have
even tried it.I have been using this product since 1993,and I know it works.

Bill-
There have been a lot of successful hoaxes over the years ; The Piltdown Man, Runaway Audi 5000s,the heroic death of Pat Tillman, countless fake Vietnam vets, Exploding Chevy Pickup Trucks, The Runaway Toyota Prius, Global Warming, The Michigan/Illinois motorcycle helmet law study...
You see where we're going ?

I think you know full well that any "swirls, holograms and fine scratches " are in the paint, not in the wax---and are more noticeable as the wax wears away. Wax does not cause these conditions and it does not make paint correction necessary.
You know this, I believe, and are perpetrating a hoax to scare people away from wax and to discredit detailers who use wax. Why ? To push your pet sealant.

Concours had the good sense to stay out of this debate. I didn't.

Doug

Doug
I do not know one person who would say swirl marks and fine scratches are something they want?Clearly, this problem has been around for many years,and know one has a clear answer how to prevent it.You call what I am saying is a hoax to scare people away from wax and discredit detailers who use it.That is your opinion.<br>


I used wax on cars before I was introduced to the sealant I now use, so I know what wax does.Although, after many years of using an acrylic sealant it is clearly better than any wax IMO.Clearly, from your post you have stated you have tried many waxes, polishes,and poly sealants, so have you found the solution to swirl marks?<br>

Personally, I think some detailers should be discredited.How would you feel if you bought a car with swirl marks, and had to pay someone else to remove them?<br>

Doug, it clear to me that I am wasting my time here. I really do not want to spend any more time trying to explain why what you said above is plain wrong.
I will more than likely get banned.I do appreciate the fact that you allowed
me to express my thoughts.Truly you have a REAL forum here.<br>

Nobody is saying that a Acrylic sealant is bad, alot of people love Klasse . What they are saying is a Acrylic sealant is not Gods gift to car detailers. Everybody knows that a sealant weather a acrylic or amino-fuctional-silicone is longer lasting then carnuba wax. Carnuba wax will have more depth then a sealant. I myself wax my car more for looks then protection. Ive seen cars that are never waxed at all with anything, and still look good after a wash . My wifes car was done last September with Duragloss 601/105 and it still looks great , beads water , and is slick. It is in the garage all the time when not used. So if you need protection get a garage.

Larry

What is an acrylic? If you go to www.wisegeek.com'what-is-acrylic.htm you will see that acrylic is really a plastic that has several properties that make it favorable to using glass.

There was or is a product on the market, speaking of glass, that is called "Liquid Glass," does that mean the product has "glass" in it.

We have formulated paint sealants for years and have never included acrylic in the product, nor have any of the chemists I know for several of the major detail chemical companies every spoke of including acrylic in their formulation.

Personally the word "acrylic" applied to a sealant is nothing but a buzz word to make a commodity product seem different than another one.

The difference between a wax and a paint sealant, among other things, is the use of standard silicone fluids (in wax) vs the use of amino-functional silicones in paint sealants.

So, what if a wax formulation includes amino-functional silicones instead of standard silicone fluids? Is it a wax then or a paint sealant?

Bill what do you think?

BA

Bud
I hear the word 'protection' used on these websites,and to most detailers it is just beading and shine.When I use the term, it is much more than that.The reason why wax by itself cannot be considered a sealant IMO is because it will not truly
bond to an acrylic clear coat.The things added to wax are to make it easier to apply,but that is it.It may stick to the surface,but it will not truly bond.<br>

Synthetic waxes are still wax, but they add a polymer to it.It may make the wax last longer, but it is still not bonding.It is really like trying to paint a car without using a primer first. The paint may stick for a short time,but it will peel off.<br>

Now poly sealants like Blackfire Wet Diamond do not contain wax,and they can create a temporary bond that will protect the clear coat for six months.This technology was developed in Germany,and this is what I would consider to be called a sealant.<br>

Now the acrylic sealant I use is better because I would use the word adhesion
when describing what it does.The pretreatment cleaner that is used first to prepare the clear coat to bond like a primer does with paint. It totally cleans the surface using Diatomaceous earth.<br>

When you apply the sealant you can actually feel it adhere the to paint.In fact,the lint from the towels I use to remove the sealant off with will attach to
the clear for some time after.It is really a weird feeling the first time you use the product.<br>


What is the acrylic they use in the paint for the clear coat?
It is hard like a plastic,so I would assume it is a form of a plastic.<br>


Everyone wants a great shine, but no one wants the swirl marks.Well,with an acrylic sealant you get a shine equal to a wax,no swirl marks, and real protection
from salt, bugs, tree sap,and bird crap to name a few, It is relatively easy to apply, and not expensive compared to other products.<br>

Hiding swirl marks with wax, or smoothing over scratches with a polish, compound
or a swirl remover is not the answer.Using an acrylic sealant makes more sense that will adhere and create a new surface. <br>

Bill, paint is polyurethane enamel, not acrylic.

You are right, but before they were either a acrylic enamel or laquer.[www.learnautopainting.com]

Bud
Did some quick checking on clear coat paint.According to this website,Acrylic
urethane's are found in clear coats used in the auto industry.[www.epoxyproducts.com]

Bill tell me what type of acrylic is put in a paint sealant and how does it intermingle with the other elements.

Also please explain what an acrylic urethane is and how the acrylic intermingles with the other elements on the paint?

I am really curious.

Bud
I cannot tell you exactly what the certain acrylic is, but my guess is that
it adheres to the clear coat by a chemical reaction.The product drys in four or five
minutes ,and establishes a new surface.In the article they say a poly urethane is
better than an acrylic,but more expensive. A urethane is a paint that will not breakdown like regular paints.