An Expert Speaks About Waxes & Sealants

The horse is dead, beat to death, not ridden to death.

Hey, guys, by now everyone who comes here has read for months these arguments.

If they wished to try out one or the other product, they probably would have by now, or just don't care.

Usually if one doesn't care, it's usually for a couple of reasons.

One being they are quite pleased with what they are using.

Doesn't mean they don't like a head's up on some new product or process, they just don't jump from what they are happy with, without darned good reason.

It appears that everything to be said about this AT5 has been said.


To the point that it has been "beatened to death".

AMEN! HALLELUJAH!

Ketch you are always most wise in your comments.

Hopefully we can move on to other topics.

Regards
Bud A

Ron

What I am sick of is reading the same articles talking about the differences of the standard products,or what causes swirls marks and the proper correction methods.It is like hearing politicians talk about problems with our economy and nation.Every body knows something is wrong,but nothing ever changes.

Is AT-5 the ultimate solution product? NO, but it is a start. ProTecht mentions
Opti coat ,and svr73 has his products. Great! Fine!Although, it is time to put
50's technology were it belongs. Clearly people want a solution to swirl and buffer marks and this is not it.

How many chemists or experts does it take to say the very same things that all
these products do is offer shine and beading.When I go on forums these are common
posts:[truthindetailing.com]

Of course the same responses from the pros. Polish, correction. and follow it up with more wax. Like this "horse is dead, beat to death, not ridden to death".
I truly wonder how many times this question has been asked on forums?

I have my coatings products but thats just a very small part of what I do

The solution to buffer marks is quite simple
Clean pads, quality pads, dont tilt the pad much at all or not at all, prime and lubricate the pad properly, dont buff at one speed and be smooth with the machine

Oh and use the best products available today
Dont use solvent based thick clumpy compound, instead spend extra and use water based single polish systems with superior lubrication for easier and better finishes

I know Bud's Diamond Seal, been a competitor of it for years when still in the business.

I know who blends and packages it for Detail Plus.

It is a very good product, does what it needs to do.

No sell here, just my observations of over 20 plus years of competing against it in the detailing market place.

Quote
billd55
Is AT-5 the ultimate solution product? NO, but it is a start. ProTecht mentions Opti coat ,and svr73 has his products. Great! Fine! Although, it is time to put 50's technology were it belongs. Clearly people want a solution to swirl and buffer marks and this is not it.

How many chemists or experts does it take to say the very same things that all
these products do is offer shine and beading.

You obviously have no grasp of the concept beind Opti-Coat. Especially saying that it's 50's technology and that it doesn't offer scratch resistency.

The only solution to swirls and buffer marks is educating the person both behind the polishing machine and the person maintaining the car. If you add in a quality coating like OC, you aren't producing shine; you're locking it in. Any product that creates that much more noticable shine on fully polished paint is just applying something that is doing so temporaily. OC is almost like adding an additional layer of harder clearcoat that not just beads water, but it sheds dirt like no other so when you go to wash your car, you're not rubbing in damaging abrasive dirt particles. One of the only products that actually adds measureable thinkness too. No wax or magic sealant comes even close. Apples and orange comparison. If you were to try it, you wouldn't be hyping AT-5 any longer. That is if you are qualified to purchase the product.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2011 02:32AM by Pro-Techt.

Pro-Techt
Do you know how to read? I said that wax and poly sealants are 50's technology.
I have never used Opti-Coat,but it appears to be better than wax . That is all
I said.


Although, this statement shows how close minded you are:

No wax or magic sealant comes even close. Apples and orange comparison. If you were to try it, you wouldn't be hyping AT-5 any longer. That is if you are qualified to purchase the product.


You have a very high opinion of your self as a detailer? You are worse than Bud in many ways. You make insulting, and opinionated remarks like this one and many
others. I really appreciate this comment:You either have no clue about detailing, or you’re borderline skitzo-autisticially-retarded buying into your self induced delusions of detailing grandeur.I also love this factual statement:Being also from South Florida (east), I can also say that 99% of the “Detailers” in the entire state don’t have any more of a clue to the characteristics of what a well preserved vehicle looks like any more than the car owners they serve. It’s like the blind leading the blind actually. Even most owners that show off their vehicles in well renowned car shows think that even their swirled up paint finishes are the SOP of owning a show car. Getting through to these bubble heads to discuss how their car could look completely different with a proper polishing job is like talking to a rock.

If you want to hype Opti-Coat feel free. I have not made one comment about it,but when you make this statement:If you were to try it, you wouldn't be hyping AT-5 any longer. That is if you are qualified to purchase the product. HOW DO YOU
KNOW THAT? YOU HAVE NOT TRIED AT-5, SO WHAT FACTUAL DATA DO YOU BASE THIS STATEMENT ON?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2011 01:05PM by billd55.

Quote
billd55
Pro-Techt
Do you know how to read? I said that wax and poly sealants are 50's technology.
I have never used Opti-Coat,but it appears to be better than wax . That is all
I said.

Seeing that your beloved AT-5 is considered a "Sealant" then I'm not really missing out on trying it according to your technology classification. Thanks for saving me a drive down to Broward! I'll scratch it off my To-Do list.

MENZERNA 106FF Costs that much from Autogeek
not that I ever shop there. 90% of what they sell doesnt cut the mustard

Pro-Techt

Quote:

The only solution to swirls and buffer marks is educating the person both behind the polishing machine and the person maintaining the car. If you add in a quality coating like OC, you aren't producing shine; you're locking it in. Any product that creates that much more noticable shine on fully polished paint is just applying something that is doing so temporaily. OC is almost like adding an additional layer of harder clearcoat that not just beads water, but it sheds dirt like no other so when you go to wash your car, you're not rubbing in damaging abrasive dirt particles. One of the only products that actually adds measureable thinkness too. No wax or magic sealant comes even close. Apples and orange comparison. If you were to try it, you wouldn't be hyping AT-5 any longer

First, you say this:

The only solution to swirls and buffer marks is educating the person both behind the polishing machine and the person maintaining the car.

You are just plain wrong by making this statement. "The only solution"? Clearly,
you are the one that has no grasp on what OC is. Once this product is applied
no wax or poly sealant is needed,so swirls should not appear. Also, no special
washing is needed, so correction should not be needed in the future.

Next, you say this:

Any product that creates that much more noticable shine on fully polished paint is just applying something that is doing so temporaily. OC is almost like adding an additional layer of harder clearcoat that not just beads water, but it sheds dirt like no other so when you go to wash your car, you're not rubbing in damaging abrasive dirt particles.


I did some research on this product and this comment makes no sense:"Any product that creates that much more noticable shine on fully polished paint is just applying something that is doing so temporaily.". According to what the manufacture says it only needs to be applied once. Have you used this product?

From what I have read about this product it is fairly new with no testing I could find. Although, several detailers have used it for a year and said good things about it.

When a manufacture asks for a wavier before he sells a product that could mean something.From what I read, if it is not applied right wet sanding is needed to remove it. I am not saying this is not a good product, but I would wait to see more reviews over a longer time period before I made any conclusions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2011 11:41PM by billd55.

opti coat is good but I'm not overly impressed with it
It loses its hydrophobic effect too quick

not as good on trim as the Japanese coatings are

Svr

I really have no experience with these new coatings, but you seem to.
I can see the advantage of thickening the clearcoat, but is it needed.
Car manufactures could use a product like Opti-Coat when they paint the
vehicles, but they do not. Cost may be a reason.

Although, the buzz word is protection, and what that word means to certain
people is not clearly defined.Clearly, shine is one aspect most consider.

Making the clearcoat thicker will not guarantee a shine, but it will prevent damage to the lower parts of the finish.Also, it will allow more polishing to correct damage.

We all know to well that waxes and polysealants offer nothing but shine and
cover defects for a short time. My question to you is this: What do these new coatings really offer besides rebuilding damaged clear?

Now I realize there are many vehicles that could use this product. Although
is this the real solution to the problem is to keep applying more coats of products like Opti-Coat?

As long as waxes and polysealants are used I cannot see how polishing and correction will ever be eliminated, and this will wear down any coating.
I would like your opinion .


Here is some facts that illustrate my point:

First
The clear coat will measure generally between 1.5 to 2.2 mils thick on a newer factory paint jobs


Second
A simple polish or wax job will not really remove any film thickness. You are simply really burnishing and polishing the clear coat to bring out its beauty. Even in light correction or compounding situations, you are only removing maybe 1 or 2 microns. In heavy compound procedures, maybe 3 microns of film removal.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2011 01:55PM by billd55.

these products offer scratch resistance up to 9H hardness which is pretty damn resilient and are actually a hardened glass membrane

glare is not like that and doesnt really offer scratch resistance
by thickening the paint you do get more shine as depth is added and colour is boosted

A couple of thing to be aware of.

1. OEM applied clears and base coats are of a different chemistry that "refinish" materials.

2. With OEM clears, while there may be 1.5 to 2.5 mil thickness, the "dense" portion at the top of the clear is only .5 mil and contains the largest percentage of the very important UV blockers.

3. Most vehicle manufacturers have recommended for several years that NO MORE THAN .3 mil be removed in sanding or buffing.

(at one time Chrysler was saying .5 mil but in 2006, revised the number to .3 mil)

4. Due to the difference in the chemistry, refinish clears will have a more even distribution of the UV blockers and density than OEM clears.

Grumpy

Great stuff, Ketch.

In addition,refinish clears can be up to 2.5 to 3.0 mils I am told by my contacts as Azko-Sikkens to account for any wet/dry sanding that the refinisher might do to remove orange-peel or dust nibs that often occur in aftermarket paint finishes.

Quote
Grumpy2
A couple of thing to be aware of.

1. OEM applied clears and base coats are of a different chemistry that "refinish" materials.

2. With OEM clears, while there may be 1.5 to 2.5 mil thickness, the "dense" portion at the top of the clear is only .5 mil and contains the largest percentage of the very important UV blockers.

3. Most vehicle manufacturers have recommended for several years that NO MORE THAN .3 mil be removed in sanding or buffing.

(at one time Chrysler was saying .5 mil but in 2006, revised the number to .3 mil)

4. Due to the difference in the chemistry, refinish clears will have a more even distribution of the UV blockers and density than OEM clears.

Grumpy

yeah your spot on mate. OEM clears I wont dare sand with anything under 2000 grit and only for spot repair, I'm not going to sand the whole car just for orange peel

I'll buff out the peel or bury the peel instead

The UV blockers are extremely important thus removing large amounts of paint and even using compounds can be deadly.