Paint Purification - my newest treatment method

Bill has a point and that is - dont always correct paint abrasively
I agree and after extensive testing, now offer two types of treatments besides correction.


Non Abrasive paint restoration, enhancement and protection - Glare, Restructure Marine, Jap/Euro Glass coatings

And now - paint purification only

That is - Three step paint decontamination wash with safe products, clay blocking, deep cleaning with a refinishing chemical not meant for detailers but actually works great, Japanese Iron Cut aka Iron X system and a paint exfoliation scrub which deep cleans the paint substrate of impurities remaining after the other steps

After finishing that, the paints lustre is enhanced highly and seal coated with either spray on or buff on (orbital or hand) glass coatings

It's really a very nice treatment method.These three steps are very useful.Thanks for sharing such a nice information with us.

Now this makes sense to me. I like the term paint purification. Instead of wearing
down the clear using abrasives.A new method is used to clean the paint and preserve
the structure followed by a true protection product.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2011 01:07PM by billd55.

Lot of over-lapping of subject matter in this forum!

SVR, I use a multi-stage cleansing system. Acid neutralising, Alkaline Neutralising, Tar removal, Clay cleansing, Neutral wash. With bad metallic particles (from Brembo's and such) I use IronX Soap Gel. But IronX won't get rid of a lot of contamination that is not metallic so the other steps are vital.( Clay only cleans the very surface. It isn't good for deep cleansing. )

Then the paint is clean and fully prepped for rotary or DA polishing. So what are you doing instead there? Exfoliation is just another word for removing a microscopic surface layer, no?

Then you layer in the glass coating? Your own stuff or the market products? I've been playing with CQuartz trying to get it to fill deep defects and leaving to harden and cure before starting the polishing process. I know I'm removing a lot of product that I applied, but that's not the point. Its what is left in microscopic gaps that makes the paint far smoother in the polishing process. It jewels beautifully, but its not quite getting to where I want it to be. What do you think of this approach?

While at Finish Kare, we developed the 1119/883 system to "neutralize" the paint of new vehicles which had set in storage at ports, Pre-delivery Centers, etc.

I was never comfortable with that system, due to the agressiveness of the products. On ocassion, some negative results were observed.

The owner of the company refused to make adjustments to reduce the concerns and I was not able to make the changes due to his attitude.

When I left and joined Automotive International (ValuGard), one of my first projects was to spend time with paint engineers from the Big 3, plus several imports and their OEM paint suppliers to develope a modified 3 stage system that was effective but with less potential for damage and more "user friendly".

The result was the ABC System of paint neutralization, which was approved by all the vehicle manufacturers we subitted it to for testing, as well as their paint suppliers, BASF, DuPont, and PPG being the main ones.

This system is still part of their TSB and Shop Manuals, etc.

Call it what you wish, a name is a name, however it deep cleans the paint system, removes ferrous metal particles and acid rain residue of damaging acids.

In the process of years of field use, a big benefit was also seen, as it reduced buffing time on heavily oxidized paint of vehicles, reduced overall detail time.

Grumpy

My only problem with ABC is that according to the MSDS sheet, there is oxalic acid in the formulation

now I may be wrong but FK's uses sulfuric

I've used FK1 with and without gloves, clayed with step 1 and 2 and tried all sorts of tests and never had a problem

Buffing with abrasives is not needed to fix oxidation anymore but it is a faster method

With compounds and multi stage polishes now obsolete and not used in our shop, buffing is much faster, far superior and easier
The exfoliation paint facial scrub stuff does not remove paint to my knowledge
No abrasives at all. pure chemical cleaners used by hand or machine.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2011 02:36PM by svr73.

Ok, I understand your position on the acid components.

However, allow me to present this question to you.

What is the main and most damaging acid in "acid rain"?

Is it not "sulfuric"?

Oxalic is a much safer and controable acid compound than sulfuric compounds.

In either case, it is the percentage used and the "purity" of the acid used that may create concerns.

Are you aware that the majority of "fence/deck washes" use oxalic as their active acid?

These are commonly sold, to the public, consumer products, and as a result should indicate the "user safety factor" of such.

Just a little thing or two you may wish to consider.

Grumpy

Ron - I don't expect you to to know this product, but with all your years of testing and searching for the right product combo, isn't this product too good to be true? I've happily used your ABC wash on 100's of vehicles throughout the years when doing warranty paint repairs at the dealer and OEM level and I trust your product to say the least.

I don't mean to put you on the spot, but you are one of the only people who's opinion matters in regards to paint decontamination. This new product called Iron-X is allegedly able to remove rust/metal particles like the ABC/FK system. It's support group is also claiming that it is "paint safe". What makes it different is that it only requires 1 step. Spray it on, let it dwell and it begins to discolor the particles and and lifts them off the surface. I have heard that it is not recommended for chrome as it could discolor it. Here's a video of it in action: [www.youtube.com]

Can you please give me your thoughts on the product/process? I'm interested in trying the product and want to remain as neutral as possible initially, but from a rational standpoint of thinking, how is this product getting removed/neutralized from the finish and are there any negative long term damaging effects?

Part of being out of the everyday business is not always keeping on top of changes or the latest products.

I will take a look and get back to you,.

Looked at the video, and I think I know what they are using.

Haven't been able to find an MSDS on the product to look further at this product.

I just contacted them through another forum and requested their MSDS. We'll see how cooperative they are. If I get it I'll post it for your review.

Here's you go:

Carpro Tradng Ltd. Safety Data Sheet according to REACH Regulation (EC) No. 1907/2006
Product: Iron-X Revision date: 06/04/2011
Version: 1.02 Issue date : 11/04/2011
1/6
Section 1: IDENTIFICATION OF THE SUBSTANCE/PREPARATION AND OF THE
COMPANY/UNDERTAKING
Identification of the
substance or preparation
Iron-X
Use of the
substance/preparation
Non-corrosive Iron Removal
CarPro Trading Limited
Address 7 Lfigeneias 4th Floor strovolos, Nicosia 1687 CYPRUS
Telephone +972 546 411 911
Company/undertaking
identification
Email sales@Cquartz.com
Emergency telephone +972 546 411 911
Section 2: HAZARD IDENTIFICATION
Harmful
Harmful if swallowed
May cause sensitisation by skin contact
Section 3: COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Substances classified as dangerous according to Directive 67/548/EEC, if present (individually, or
in combination) in concentrations exceeding those defined under 1907/2006.
Name EC Number CAS
Number
Content
(% W/W)
Hazard
Symbol(s)
R-Phrase(s)
Ammonium Sulfanylacetate 226-540-9 5421-46-5 3-25 T R25, R43
Alkyl Ethoxy sulphate -------------- 68585-34-2 1-15 Xi R38, R41
Additional substances, listed according to 648/2004
0.1% or more but less
than 1%
Fragrance
Carpro Tradng Ltd. Safety Data Sheet according to REACH Regulation (EC) No. 1907/2006
Product: Iron-X Revision date: 06/04/2011
Version: 1.02 Issue date : 11/04/2011
2/6
Section 4: FIRST AID MEASURES
Inhalation If patient feels unwell, remove from exposure and keep warm and at rest. Ensure airways are
clear and give oxygen if breathing is difficult. If symptoms persist, seek medical attention.
Contact with skin Wash the affected area thoroughly with soap and water. If redness/irritation develops/persists,
seek medical attention.
Contact with eyes Immediately irrigate with eyewash solution or clean water. Medical advice should be sought as
a precautionary measure.
Ingestion Wash out mouth and dilute ingested chemicals with plenty of milk or water. Do NOT induce
vomiting. Seek medical attention.
First aid facilities: Eyewash and normal washroom facilities.
Advice to doctor: Treat symptomatically.
Section 5: FIRE FIGHTING MEASURES
*****This product is not flammable*****
Extinguishing media Foam, carbon dioxide, dry powder or water fog.
Hazardous
decomposition
products
Thermal decomposition giving flammable and harmful products: Hydrogen sulphide,
methymercaptan, ethylmercaptan, sulphur oxides, carbon oxides
Special fire fighting
measures
It is advisable that fire-fighters wear self-contained positive pressure breathing apparatus and
full, chemical proof, turnout gear.
Section 6: ACCIDENTAL RELEASE MEASURES
Personal precautions Suitable personal protection should be worn whilst dealing with spillage/accidental release.
Refer to section 8 for further details.
Environmental
precautions
Wash spillage area with water to dilute. Do not discharge into natural waters without pretreatment
at a water waste/sewage/biological processing plant.
Small spills (<5L) May be washed down the Methods for cleaning drain with water
up
Large spills (>5L) Should be contained with absorbent material and disposed of
professionally.
Notification: If this material enters the waterways, contact the Environmental Protection Authority or your
local Waste Management Authority.
Carpro Tradng Ltd. Safety Data Sheet according to REACH Regulation (EC) No. 1907/2006
Product: Iron-X Revision date: 06/04/2011
Version: 1.02 Issue date : 11/04/2011
3/6
Section 7: HANDLING AND STORAGE
Handling As with all chemical products, eye and skin protection are advisable if repeated exposure or
splashing may occur. Use in a well a ventilated area and avoid inhalation of vapour or mists.
At all times, observe good hygiene and working practices i.e. wash hands prior to eating,
drinking, smoking or using toilet facilities.
Storage Store in original, closed containers, in a cool (20°C), dry and well ventilated area. Avoid
sharp edges and other potential sources of puncture. Ensure product is stacked safely.
Avoid: Carbon steel, copper and copper alloys.
Section 8: EXPOSURE CONTROLS/PERSONAL PROTECTION
Occupational
exposure limits
No occupational exposure limits listed (EH40 – UK Health and Safety Executive) for
hazardous components listed in section 3.
Ammonium Sulfanylacetate:
INRS (FR) 2006 VME 1mg/m3
ACGIH (US) 2007 TWA 1mg/m3
Hand/Eye/Skin
Protection
Hand, eye and skin protection should be worn if repeated exposure or splashing may occur.
Contact with skin should be minimised, In case of spillage, rubber boots and PVC suit should
be worn.
Respiratory
Protection
Not normally required due to low volatility. However, if the product is being used in an
enclosed area, respiratory protection is advisable.
Section 9: PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPTERIES
Appearance: Colourless Liquid
Odour: Characteristic
Freezing Point: Not available (aqueous liquid)
Boiling point: 100 °C (same as water)
Flash point: Does not flash
pH: 6.5-7.0 @ 20°C (pH Neutral)
Relative density: 1.08 g/ml @ 20°C
Solubility: Soluble in water in all proportions
Section 10: STABILITY AND REACTIVITY
Stability Stable under normal conditions.
Materials to avoid Strong oxidising agents, nitric acid
Conditions to avoid Excessive heat (more than 50°C) and cold. Direct sunlight.
Hazardous reaction
products
Thermal decomposition giving flammable and harmful products: Hydrogen sulphide,
methymercaptan, ethylmercaptan, sulphur oxides, carbon oxides
Carpro Tradng Ltd. Safety Data Sheet according to REACH Regulation (EC) No. 1907/2006
Product: Iron-X Revision date: 06/04/2011
Version: 1.02 Issue date : 11/04/2011
4/6
Section 11: TOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION
Acute toxicity: LD50 (oral, rat) 170-650 mg/Kg (adapted from OECD Guideline 423 (Acute Oral
toxicity - Acute Toxic Class Method))
Inhalation: Low risk – not volatile.
May cause irritation to the mucous membrane and upper airways. Symptoms of exposure may
include sneezing and coughing.
Skin: Low risk.
May cause irritation and sensitisation when in contact with the skin. May result in redness and
itchiness.
Eye: Low risk.
May cause irritation in contact with the eyes, which may result in redness, stinging and
excessive tearing.
Ingestion: Medium risk.
May cause nausea, vomiting and possible abdominal pain.
Section 12: ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION
Ecotoxicity LC50 500mg/L (adapted from OECD Guideline 203 (Fish, Acute Toxicity
Test))
Persistence and
degradability
Easy to eliminate.
Biological degradability > 90%
Bioaccumulative
potential
Does not bioaccumulate.
Other adverse effects None
Section 13: DISPOSAL CONSIDERATIONS
Dispose of according to relevant government regulations. Empty containers should be rinsed with water prior to
disposal or recycling. If necessary, quantities greater than 5 Litres/Kilograms should be treated by a professional
disposal company.
Section 14:
TRANSPORT INFORMATION
UN Number Proper shipping name
Hazard
Identification
number
Class
Packing
group
Land
transport:
ADR/RID
Not classified as dangerous for transport
Carpro Tradng Ltd. Safety Data Sheet according to REACH Regulation (EC) No. 1907/2006
Product: Iron-X Revision date: 06/04/2011
Version: 1.02 Issue date : 11/04/2011
5/6
Sea transport:
IMDG
Not classified as dangerous for transport
Air transport:
IATA/ICAO
Not classified as dangerous for transport
Section 15: REGULATORY INFORMATION
Hazard symbol(s)
Harmful
Contains Ammonium Sulfanylacetate. May cause an allergic reaction.
R-phrase(s):
R22 Harmful if swallowed
R43 May cause sensitisation by skin contact
S-phrase(s):
S2 Keep out of the reach of children
S26 In case of contact with eyes, rinse immediately with plenty of water and seek medical advice.
S37 Wear suitable gloves
S46 If swallowed, seek medical advice immediately and show this container or label
Guiding information:
This product is classified, labelled and packaged according to the Chemicals (Hazard Information and Packaging for
Supply) Regulations (United Kingdom) 2009 and to the Approved Classification and labelling Guide (Sixth Edition).
Additional reference has also been made to EC Directive 67/548/EEC (Dangerous Substances Directive) and
conformity with EC Directive 1999/45/EC (Dangerous Preparations Directive) has been checked.
The surfactant(s) contained in this preparation complies(comply) with the biodegradability criteria as laid down in
Regulation (EC) No.648/2004 on detergents. Data to support this assertion are held at the disposal of the competent
authorities of the Member States and will be made available to them, at their direct request or at the request of a
detergent manufacturer.
The information within this data sheet has been collated from EC regulation 790/2009 (amended 1272/2008), the
CESIO recommendations for Anionic and Non-ionic surfactants (2006), the EH40/2005 Workplace Exposure limits, the
Detergent Ingredients Database (DID-list, maintained by Ecolabelling Norway on behalf of the European Commission),
CESIO recommendations for the classification and labelling of surfactants as “Dangerous for the Environment”,
REACH Registered Substances Database IUCLID5) and from ingredient safety data sheets.
The data should be considered when making any assessment under the Control of Substance Hazardous to Health
(COSHH) Regulations.
Section 16: OTHER INFORMATION
Full text of hazard symbols and R-phrases, if mentioned as hazardous components in section 3.
R25 Toxic if swallowed
Carpro Tradng Ltd. Safety Data Sheet according to REACH Regulation (EC) No. 1907/2006
Product: Iron-X Revision date: 06/04/2011
Version: 1.02 Issue date : 11/04/2011
6/6
R38 Irritating to skin
R41 Risk of serious damage to eyes
R43 May cause sensitisation by skin contact
PLEASE NOTE: the above risk phrases refer to the full strength ingredients, NOT to the Iron-X product.
Revision history:
Revision Author date notes
1.02 BL Scientific 06/04/11 MSDS updated to REACH specification. Classification according to DPD
and CHIP.
If you have any queries relating to this MSDS, its contents or any other safety related questions,
please write to: sales@Cquartz.com
The information contained herein is believed to be accurate and is given in good faith. No warranty
or guarantee is implied. Recipients must take responsibility for observing existing laws and
regulations.

Quote
Grumpy2
Ok, I understand your position on the acid components.

However, allow me to present this question to you.

What is the main and most damaging acid in "acid rain"?

Is it not "sulfuric"?

Oxalic is a much safer and controable acid compound than sulfuric compounds.

In either case, it is the percentage used and the "purity" of the acid used that may create concerns.

Are you aware that the majority of "fence/deck washes" use oxalic as their active acid?

These are commonly sold, to the public, consumer products, and as a result should indicate the "user safety factor" of such.

Just a little thing or two you may wish to consider.

Grumpy

My concern about oxalic acid is that bleaches unpainted/uncoated metals but I'm sure that the old school Fallout removal powders that I diluted with water and washed a car with, in my early days in the industry (seventeen years) are much worse than what ABC's product is

That stuff would sting your hands like mad

As for the Iron Cut/Iron X. Its a japanese product and there are more than one company making this stuff. I contacted the manufacturer directly about it as I really do like it for iron removal

Its only downfall is that its damaging to plastic chrome apparently and "IT ONLY REMOVES IRON PARTICLES" Nothing else at all

So Finish Kare or ABC is still needed

I love ABC. I've had a few cars in that had cement powder settle and bond to the paint and owners had tried "everything" and everyone trying to get rid of it. 20 Minutes with me and the stuff just washes away with Product B. Its fantastic at other contaminants, not just Iron particles. Great system, Ron. : )

When I retired, I left all my chemical dictionarys, etc for Tim.

Wish I had one of them now, since I feel it would be very useful to go through the various different "chemical names" for various components.

That said, and with out true understanding of their chemistry, I find the product very interesting.

Everything progresses and changes, and these people may be the new way, just not sure without my sources at hand.

Perhaps when I get a really rainy day and not able to go "black topping" on my new Shadow, will go to the libary and do some research.

Thanks for the heads up, I look forwarding to learning almost anything.

Grumpy