26 hours!

[truthindetailing.com]

Does anyone ever consider what is causing this car to look this way in the first place? This is the common response:
Beautiful job as usual Jeff.

That thing was an absolute mess before Immaculate Reflections saved the day!! The time you put into this was definitely, time well spent.
__________________

Yea,it was an absolute mess and it took 26 hours to fix it, so what.I admit it looks
better, but for how long?

This looks like neglect, poor maintenance routine
does not wash frequently, poor washing choices, gas station, cheap car washes, parking garages... who knows he could be washing himself.

You have no idea how many of these people purchase expensive vehicles and only buy the cheapest wash they can find, wash at the gas station cause it free or cheap with a fill up. Many women do not realize you have to wash the vehicle frequently they go for months and so much muck is stuck to the paint of course the brushes or cloth will scratch up the paint.

Gina
I agree about the washing, but the wax is the reason. The washing is not scratching the paint, it's smearing the wax.

But you do not know if they had any wax on the vehicle.

Exactly, someone presenting their "opinion" regarding an issue, with no valid facts to back up their opinion.

Next thing we know, these sorts will start promoting one wax/sealant over other brands, etc, etc,

With out "education", there is a lack of "knowledge" whichh then makes it very difficult to present an intelligent path to a "diagnois" of that "may" be creating the resulting issue or concern.

Well considering that wax and poly sealants are the most sold products on the market.I would say it is a safe bet.


With out "education", there is a lack of "knowledge" whichh then makes it very difficult to present an intelligent path to a "diagnois" of that "may" be creating the resulting issue or concern.


Ron there is no education, just detailers sticking there head in the sand on the subject. The only path is correction for this industry. Some thing was applied
to this car to make it look this way.


I do not think it is just my opinion that this car looks like crap. How many cars
do I need to post here that show the same problem over and over.

Next thing we know, these sorts will start promoting one wax/sealant over other brands, etc, etc,

Ron, you are a smart guy, but this statement makes little sense. There is no difference between them. They are basically the same. They offer shine, bead water, but when they break down this is the result. If you do not use these
products then this situation will not happen. It is just that simple.

I talked to a lady today that had a older Lexas who mentioned that all she ever did was wash it, and it looked alot better than the car in the post.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2011 12:10AM by billd55.

"Some thing was applied to this car to make it look this way".

It would be an accurate statement to say "something was done to make it look this way" It would be inaccurate, false, misleading, overstretching to say "something was applied" The FACT is you simply do not have any first hand knowledge, evidence to suggest, or imply something was applied.

You are trying to support this theory of yours by constantly surmising that something (that something being wax) was applied to the paint to cause this... How about that something being applied was a dirty rag, harsh brush or some other unknown factor?

You might be absolutely correct (who knows your theory defies conventional wisdom) why not put your theory to the test and engage the services of scientists to test out this outlandish idea of yours and if they confirm your theory...then we will all eat CROW!

Quote
billd55
Gina
I agree about the washing, but the wax is the reason. The washing is not scratching the paint, it's smearing the wax.

absolutely untrue. Whether there is wax on the car or not, wash marring, towel marks are going to marr the finish somewhat, unless a scratch resistant 6 to 9H hardness glass coating is applied, which will help alot

Gina

Why do I need scientists to prove my point. I have washed many cars,and there is no reason a car should look like this. Granted, things can mar the surface during washing and a scratch resist coating will help, but clearly that is not the case here.

Why do detailers wash the cars with harsh soap and clay the surface before correction? Simple, to remove the waxes, and I also contend that compound maybe also needed to completely remove it.

I have detailed many boats were wax has been used. I remember one that took endless hours to cut through that hard buildup to get the shine back.

Something was done to this car, and clearly the damage was removed after 26 hours of work. It was not permanent, so marring can be ruled out, so what else could it be?If your telling me that something that was applied (wax or sealant) early
is not one reason than you clearly you are not on a intelligent path to a "diagnois" of that "may" be creating the resulting issue or concern IMO.

Quote
billd55
Why do detailers wash the cars with harsh soap and clay the surface before correction? Simple, to remove the waxes, and I also contend that compound maybe also needed to completely remove it.

Clay would be the last product I'd use to remove wax. It's not intended nor is it designed to be used to do this? Harsh soaps help, but depending on what product was used and how recently, you'll need a much stronger product then "harsh soap and clay". And yes, compound can do it too, but it's better to make the surface as bare as possble prior to buffing. That's probably 1 of the many things you're doing wrong that in turn is causing you swirls after you buff?

[www.madsci.org]

I THOUGHT THIS WOULD PROBABLY EXPLAIN WHY MANY SCRATCHES IN CARS ALSO SEEM TO BE IN CIRCLES.

Re: Why do scratches in glass alway seem to form circles around light-sources?
Date: Tue Nov 23 21:00:15 1999
Posted By: William Beaty, Electrical Engineer / Physics explainer / K-6 science textbook content provider
Area of science: Physics
ID: 942923651.Ph Message:

Hi Valerie.
Good question! I remember wondering about this as a kid, only I was thinking about the tree branches at night. In the winter, the ice-coated tree branches near a streetlight formed a "halo" of circles around the light. The branches were all over the place, yet they created a circular pattern around the light at night. As I walked along, the circle followed me, even though the branches did not.

If you look carefully at the plastic, you'll see that the glowing "circle" is actually made up of short pieces of straight scratches. All of these short straight pieces form a circle, sort of like this:

_
/
- _ \
| / |
| * | (the light is in the center)
\ -
_ /
\ _
/

Each scratch is really far longer than these short bright parts shown above. If you move your head along, the short bright pieces seem to move along. That gives us a hint as to what's happening. We are seeing each bright highlight in one spot on each scratch, while the rest of the scratch remains dark.

We see this:


* <----the light

/ <---- the "highlight scratch"





Even though this the true situation is this:

/
/
/
* /
/
/ <---- long scratch
/
/
/



The little "highlights" appear because the scratches are polished and shiney. They act like little mirrors (well, more like long silver bars.) The "highlight" on the scratch is actually a distorted image of the light source! The highlights follow the movements of your head in the same way that the light source does. The rest of the scratch remains invisible. If you move your head back and forth, the distant light source seems to stay in the same place, and all the little highlights try to do the same, even though the scratches are apparently sweeping sideways. The distant light source seems to be surrounded by little reflections, and the reflections form a circular halo.

All of this can only work if the scratches are shiney. And when I noticed this same phenomenon in the trees, it only worked because the branches were coated with wet shiney ice, and the tree was dark except for the "highlight" reflections of the streetlight on the ice.

There's another place where you'll see something similar. If you're walking out in a garden and a long piece of spiderweb is stretched across your path, you might only see the "highlight" of the sunshine reflected from the invisible strand. That "highlight" apparently moves along as you move your head. It is an image of the sun being reflected by the shiney strand. If you go and find an entire complicated spiderweb, try viewing a distant light source through it. You'll see that the same "circle" appears, just as with the polished scratches.

Here's something that these scratch-reflections can be used for:

SCRATCH-HOLOGRAMS DRAWN BY HAND
[www.amasci.com] ur/holo1.html

By placing the scratches in just the right positions on the plastic, we can use the little "highlights" to draw pictures one dot at a time. What's cool is, these pictures can be drawn in three dimensions, so the picture hangs in space like a hologram. It's also possible to draw a "picture" of your hand by using a dirty paper towel to "polish" the plastic in a circular motion. See the above holograms article for pictures of how I "polished" my car hood with a gritty piece of paper and left glowing images of my hand behind.

I dont like spiders.

Quote
Pro-Techt

Quote
billd55
Why do detailers wash the cars with harsh soap and clay the surface before correction? Simple, to remove the waxes, and I also contend that compound maybe also needed to completely remove it.

Clay would be the last product I'd use to remove wax. It's not intended nor is it designed to be used to do this? Harsh soaps help, but depending on what product was used and how recently, you'll need a much stronger product then "harsh soap and clay". And yes, compound can do it too, but it's better to make the surface as bare as possble prior to buffing. That's probably 1 of the many things you're doing
wrong that in turn is causing you swirls after you buff?

spot on Pro Techt. This is why my decontamination and purification process is used and what makes the paint more responsive to polishing and easier to get the shine from

all great things come from prep

quote:

All of this can only work if the scratches are shiney. And when I noticed this same phenomenon in the trees, it only worked because the branches were coated with wet shiney ice, and the tree was dark except for the "highlight" reflections of the streetlight on the ice.


Well, wax makes your paint shine, so scratches only occur when wax or a sealant is used given this person's logic for clear coats.Makes sense to me.


quote:

See the above holograms article for pictures of how I "polished" my car hood with a gritty piece of paper and left glowing images of my hand behind.


Gina, do you polish your car with a gritty piece of paper? I sure do not.
What is your point here?

I think this is where Grumpy usually cites the difference between enthusiast detailing and professional detailing. Lessee...26 hours times $60 an hour equals ( reaching for my smart phone with calculator function ) 1560 dollars worth of services on the paint alone. Now that the paint is done, we can start on the trim, tires, interior and maybe undercarriage.
I'm betting that most detailing customers won't pay that much regardless of the results.

How long would you pros on here expect to take to do the job described ? Could the time be cut drastically by wet sanding followed by rotary compounding and polishing with a final DA or orbital polish step ?
Doug

Well said Doug, we get paid for the job, not the hour. If a car can not be corrected in a reasonable amount of tim, we refer it to a paint shop. Recently I spent about 8 hours polishing a black crew cab longbox with over 1000,000 miles on it. This truck had been repainted at some time in its life on the driver side. The mill readings were all over the place. I doubt that 26 hours would have made any difference over 8 hours of rotary correction, swirl removal and final glazing/waxing. For the record I get $150.00 for this. As you said, not many folks would pay $1500.00+ for this and still have a dirty truck everywhere else.

bobm :
Thanks for the kind reply.

According to my calculator, you were paid $18.75 per hour minus your overhead for that 8-hour job. That does not sound like enough to make a profit.

It is true that you must charge by the job. That means estimating each job based on how many hours it averages and how much you wish to charge per hour for that type of work.

If you make up for low-profit jobs by ding other work at a high profit, you may stll end up in the black when the smoke clears :

Examples of high-profit work : Window tinting, touch-up painting, Zaino polymer Sealant ( $100 or more) , Opti-Coat, headlight restoration, Rain-X or AquaPel on windshield , PDR, floor mat sales etc.

As Bud says, you must know how much you must average per hour to meet your costs and those costs include a salary and health insurance for yourself. You can charge more than your costs if the traffic will bear it but you cannot afford to operate below cost. ( Credit Bud for all this ).

Let us know your thoughts on the above.
Doug

Yes, I make up for the loss with chip repairs and upolstery repairs. The end of month average is about $25.00