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Paint sealant Help
Posted by Rob Preston
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Paint sealant Help April 17, 2003 04:13AM |
Today I received a request to have the paint sealant applied to their Expedition. Its an extra option in my services for an additional $15 for ever now. No one ever asked for it though until today.
My nightmare began about 10am when I first started to apply Ardexs' clearcoat paint sealant. After Buffing, Polishing, then with the STUFF....The intructions say leave on for fifteen mins with in this time it would turn to a haze and then proced to take off (they didn't metion that it turns to concrete). I applied with a damp sponge wax pad as instructed. Spread as evenly as possible, Two panels at a time. then waited until the fifteen minutes were up. This stuff turned white then stuck like supper clue in some areas. two hours go by needless to say I'm a lot upset cursing my Ardex guy up and down swearing never to by other product from him. But that changed after I calmed damn hours hours later.
Weather Conditions: 75 degrees, heavy overcast
Do all paint sealants do this? Was it applied wrong,
I didn't spend the time experimenting with this product like I do with the others.
The stuff worked great when the Ardex guy was presenting the product. The only thing that was different was the eviorment (from a shop to on site).
My nightmare began about 10am when I first started to apply Ardexs' clearcoat paint sealant. After Buffing, Polishing, then with the STUFF....The intructions say leave on for fifteen mins with in this time it would turn to a haze and then proced to take off (they didn't metion that it turns to concrete). I applied with a damp sponge wax pad as instructed. Spread as evenly as possible, Two panels at a time. then waited until the fifteen minutes were up. This stuff turned white then stuck like supper clue in some areas. two hours go by needless to say I'm a lot upset cursing my Ardex guy up and down swearing never to by other product from him. But that changed after I calmed damn hours hours later.
Weather Conditions: 75 degrees, heavy overcast
Do all paint sealants do this? Was it applied wrong,
I didn't spend the time experimenting with this product like I do with the others.
The stuff worked great when the Ardex guy was presenting the product. The only thing that was different was the eviorment (from a shop to on site).
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Re: Paint sealant Help April 17, 2003 04:29AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 466 |
Hey Rob,
I was on my way to bed as I am beat after doing two details today, one a BMW 745 and a Hummer H2....lots of paint on those babies!
Then I saw your post and just had to reply because I can feel your pain. Without seeing the paint and your process of application I am going to diagnose the problem as putting on too much product and/or the sealant being placed on top of a incompatible polish or glaze.
Trying to apply the sealant over a product that contains a wax will also lead to problems.
To remedy I would start from scratch. Clean the paint well and polish it with a compatible polish (sealants need a dwell time so they may adhere or bond with the paint and many polishes or glazes will interfer with that bonding), re-apply the sealant (on just a fender), very little, allow it to bond and then buff it down after the suggested time.
Are you using MF's to buff it off with?
Hope this helps,
Anthony
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
I was on my way to bed as I am beat after doing two details today, one a BMW 745 and a Hummer H2....lots of paint on those babies!
Then I saw your post and just had to reply because I can feel your pain. Without seeing the paint and your process of application I am going to diagnose the problem as putting on too much product and/or the sealant being placed on top of a incompatible polish or glaze.
Trying to apply the sealant over a product that contains a wax will also lead to problems.
To remedy I would start from scratch. Clean the paint well and polish it with a compatible polish (sealants need a dwell time so they may adhere or bond with the paint and many polishes or glazes will interfer with that bonding), re-apply the sealant (on just a fender), very little, allow it to bond and then buff it down after the suggested time.
Are you using MF's to buff it off with?
Hope this helps,
Anthony
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
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Re: Paint sealant Help April 17, 2003 04:50AM |
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Re: Paint sealant Help April 17, 2003 02:09PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Paint Sealants were designed to be applied to a new car finish with nothing on the paint.
When you apply to a finish that has been contaminated with compound oils; polish silicones and possibly waxes you can have problems. However, they are usually streaking problems not problems of the product hardening like "concrete."
If you are going to apply to an older car finish I recommend you do whatever you are going to do, for example:
1. Compound to correct a paint finish problem
2. Swirl remover and polish
Then before applying this sealant, if you persist on using it, I would wash the car down with a cleaning solvent to remove all the residue from the previous two steps.
Wash with shampoo and dry and then apply the product as per instructions.
It is also possible that you applied too much product. However, a good paint sealant should not have much filler in it. The filler is what creates the white haze.
For example, our DIAMOND PLUS Sealant has a slight amount of filler to allow the applicator to know where they did or did not apply the sealant. That is the only reason for filler. On the other hand, the cheapy products sold at the discount stores are loaded with filler to simply make the bottle look full of nice stuff. When in actuality there is about 1/4 active ingredients and 3/4's filler. That is why a cheapy product leaves so much white "stuff."
I know of no reason why you would have to leave a product on for 15 minutes after application. It sounds like a "marketing gimmick" to me.
Contact adriana@detailplus.com and ask her to send you the articles on Waxes and Paint Sealants. They will help you to understand the basics of these two products.
If I can assist you further please feel free to contact me.
Regards
Bud Abraham
buda@detailplus.com</HTML>
buda
When you apply to a finish that has been contaminated with compound oils; polish silicones and possibly waxes you can have problems. However, they are usually streaking problems not problems of the product hardening like "concrete."
If you are going to apply to an older car finish I recommend you do whatever you are going to do, for example:
1. Compound to correct a paint finish problem
2. Swirl remover and polish
Then before applying this sealant, if you persist on using it, I would wash the car down with a cleaning solvent to remove all the residue from the previous two steps.
Wash with shampoo and dry and then apply the product as per instructions.
It is also possible that you applied too much product. However, a good paint sealant should not have much filler in it. The filler is what creates the white haze.
For example, our DIAMOND PLUS Sealant has a slight amount of filler to allow the applicator to know where they did or did not apply the sealant. That is the only reason for filler. On the other hand, the cheapy products sold at the discount stores are loaded with filler to simply make the bottle look full of nice stuff. When in actuality there is about 1/4 active ingredients and 3/4's filler. That is why a cheapy product leaves so much white "stuff."
I know of no reason why you would have to leave a product on for 15 minutes after application. It sounds like a "marketing gimmick" to me.
Contact adriana@detailplus.com and ask her to send you the articles on Waxes and Paint Sealants. They will help you to understand the basics of these two products.
If I can assist you further please feel free to contact me.
Regards
Bud Abraham
buda@detailplus.com</HTML>
buda
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Re: Paint sealant Help April 17, 2003 05:34PM |
<HTML>Well, that sucks as far as the cheap product with fillers. I always thought of Ardex as repeatable name to use ... especially since I paid 35 bucks for the crap. I'm glad I didn't buy the cheaper one that he had (imagine the problems I would have had then).
Thank you Anthony, Bud for the info.
I also have the Auto Armor in my arsenal but that did the same thing when I applied to my Vehicle. White haze and a paint to get off that is why I bought Ardex's Paint sealant.
Can you guys recommend a paint sealant that you guys use?? Durability and easy to use would be preferred thank you.</HTML>
Thank you Anthony, Bud for the info.
I also have the Auto Armor in my arsenal but that did the same thing when I applied to my Vehicle. White haze and a paint to get off that is why I bought Ardex's Paint sealant.
Can you guys recommend a paint sealant that you guys use?? Durability and easy to use would be preferred thank you.</HTML>
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Re: Paint sealant Help April 17, 2003 11:16PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 466 |
<HTML>Rob,
Black Fire or Hi-Temps "Terminator 2" are both very good polymer sealants.
I have been using the Terminator 2 for years now with no problems at all. It never sticks but always comes off with little to no effort.
Classic Motors sells the Black Fire, which is good but they don't sell in gallons so it's not a good choice for the professional.
Top of the Line sells Terminator 2 and it comes in gallon sizes.
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
Black Fire or Hi-Temps "Terminator 2" are both very good polymer sealants.
I have been using the Terminator 2 for years now with no problems at all. It never sticks but always comes off with little to no effort.
Classic Motors sells the Black Fire, which is good but they don't sell in gallons so it's not a good choice for the professional.
Top of the Line sells Terminator 2 and it comes in gallon sizes.
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
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Re: Paint sealant Help April 18, 2003 03:53AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 634 |
<HTML> I have used Meguiars Polymer Sealant and I like it. I find its easy to apply and remove and it seems to last as long as anything Ive tried.
One thing I notice though is that the suggestion to apply it to clean paint is important. If a rich polish in down first it doesnt seem to bond properly.
Best regards,
John</HTML>
One thing I notice though is that the suggestion to apply it to clean paint is important. If a rich polish in down first it doesnt seem to bond properly.
Best regards,
John</HTML>
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Re: Paint sealant Help April 18, 2003 10:03PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 15 |
<HTML>I use the Blackfire also and although it is not sold in bulk you do shat I do and offer that service as a "menu" item which it sounds like you do anyways. My charge for this treatment is $20 additional. Of course you need to sell the customer the detail package also to remove the old waxes and what have you before doing this.</HTML>
Doing what I love....and loving what I do
Doing what I love....and loving what I do
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