GTO or Lemans??

I'm looking on buying a 70 GTO.This car has a crome front bumper,70 Judge stripes,69 Judge rear spoiler and a hood tach and GTO badging.Now I know for a fact that in 69 you could order your GTO with the crome bumper.Did pontiac continue with this in 1970?

Not that I know of. And as I think about it I thought the last year you could get a chrome bumper on one was in 68. And there weren't very many of them built. But I have seen a couple, and all of them were 68's. Are you sure you are not confusing the two, 68 and 69? They do look almost exactly the same. Anyway, I have never seen nor heard about a 70 GTO with a chrome bumper. And I have done a lot of research on them as I am restoring a 70 Judge right now. It kind of sounds like a frankin goat. But I could be wrong. All I can say for sure is that if the first three numbers of the VIN are 242, then it is at least a real GTO. Just be carefull there are probably as many or more clones out there than there is the real thing. I know when I bought mine there was no way I was going to fork out the cash until I had the PHS documentation in my hands. I bought one before without it. And got screwed. NEVER again. Good luck. Hope it turns out to be the oddball you are hopeing it is.



70 Judge in the works!

I've done alot of research on GTO's also and I've never seen one like this.My first thought was its a fake,the guy has sent alot of pics to me.If its a fake its a damn good one.Your right the last year for the crome bumper was in 68,my mistake.But this car that I'm looking at is a 70.So far the only evidence the guy has is,it says 70 GTO on the title.I e-mailed the guy to see if he had any other documents other than the title that says its a GTO.ie. PHS docs,paper work ect.He has'nt responded yet.

Then it is probably a clone. Simply ask him what the VIN number is. If indeed he gives you the ACTUAL VIN number, and the first three digits are 242, then it is a GTO. But I doubt that will be the case. Tell him you want the VIN so you can order the PHS documents on the car. If he is un-willing to do so. Then pass on the car. No need to get taken, in a effort to have one. There are to many real ones to allow yourself to be taken to the cleaners. Been there done that. Got the T-Shirt. For what it is worth.

Oh and I think the first three digits of the Lemans and Tempest VIN's are 235, and 237. But I might be wrong about that. As I am not into either. Only GTO's.



70 Judge in the works!

Thanks for the advice,I've been screwed also on on deal.I'm in the same boat as you,I'm being very cousious.I'll keep you updated.

TIM:: someone most likely did a change over & installed the Lemans front nose on this car??

VERY possable. But why? Maybe it has been wrecked? If indeed the VIN pans out then there is no problem. With the exception of how difficult it is to find a 70 GTO front clip. Which may be why someone would change it. But in my eyes, even if it is a real GTO, that dramaticly deminishes the value of the car. And should be taken into account with the purchase. Tim, how much is the guy wanting for the car? And what condition is it in? Keep in mind to put it back right is not only going to cost the amount for the replacement parts, but also a paint job. So this could get costly. If the guy wants a bunch of money for the car. Then I would step back and look at what one that is intact would cost, as opposed to fixing one that has been canabalized. That is simply my oppinion though.



70 Judge in the works!

The car is in very fine condition,it needs nothing.He's asking $9,995 for it.I dont think anyone in there right mind would put a Lemans front clip on a GTO.

So what is the VIN on the car? Or did he tell you?



70 Judge in the works!

The guy has'nt mail me back yet with the vin.Which tells me,he knows its a fake and he's not willing to give me the vin#.If it was a #'s matching GTO in this form,I'm sure any guy would give up the vin.

Well "numbers matching" actually only means that the entire drive train is the original equipment that came with the car when it was new. Which for me is not that important, as I am not interested in a concours car at all. My Judge will actually have a 71 455 with 71 455 HO round port heads on it. It will be around 500hp, so I dont think I will mind it much. Plus it will look exactly the same as it did new. Short of the little numbers stamped on the block, and heads. For me this is not that big of a deal. But if the VIN on the car its self were not that of a REAL GTO. Then that is where the price of the car becomes WAY more important. There is NO way I would pay almost $10,000 for LeMans no matter how nice it is. But that kind of money for a sweet 70 GTO is not to bad at all. Munbers matching or not. Of course if it is numbers matching that would be a plus. But like I said, for me that is not THAT big of an issue. But again if the guy will not tell you the VIN, take a pass. Thats what I would do. Good luck!



70 Judge in the works!

the chrome bumper was only on the 68 low output 350s mostly converts,and was an option for any 68 gto if you didnt like the endura.& all chromes had no hideaway's stock from factory and the best way is to find the 242 code twice on the car Vin and the plate on door or engine compartment but that dont matter because people have replaced gto tags on lemans so look to find tampering on tags make sure there factory rivets hope you luck



travis williams

my guess it is peiced together car(a fake basically). He probably took the front clip off a lemans or an earlier model GTO, which is most logical, since the wing is off a 69. If I were you I would probably let it pass, since he is not giving you the vin number. Another thing trying to resell it would be a pain and you probably wouldn't get more than 5-6 grand out of it. Unless you kept it for thirty so years and they became really rare, then you could maybe sell it to a desperate man for a bit more.

oh yes never buy a car or any thing that the person is not willing to give out info on,,, there are laws out there to protect you. And there is a law for you to disclose any info on a car truck etc.etc. P.S if he wont give you vin number ? that put's flags up ... Whats he hideing ? is it or isnt it.....
your best bet save your money. in due time there will be a gem that will fall into a crack and if you have your mulaw bigo bango,,,,P.S
go to the DMV with his #ers from his plate and pay to have them ran say he hit your car > a witness took his plate. and you want to give him the chance to come clean so you can leave the cop's out.. it should have the car's Vin # and address owner etc etc ... Ive done this before and it works all the time.. cops have better things to deal with ..if you can track em down your self why not.. we live in the world of info why not use it.. if you can find out about a lemon you can find a VIN#....time and $$$ but i woundnt waist my time or $$$ but i would waist it on finding my dream car ..hope you luck....



travis williams

P.S 70 gto did not come stock with chrome bumpers only 1968 and it was an option this option only came in 1968 and was mostly due because people did not like the endura the first year of the endura.. so they put out a chrome option and not the same as lemans bumper in the early mid year of 68,,but the chrome did not come with hideaway. and was mostly on 350 motor option's for the gto mostly converts.... there was several orderd with HO & RAM AIRs but they dont know how many exact. it was a dealer option as well as factory option. and in 69 the chrome was no longer available unless you bought it from aftermarket and put in on your self. 69 only had the painted endura .or it was a lemans ive been do'ing research on gto for many many moons i have factory books with specs. and i have a lot of dealer info ive found over the years.



travis williams

yea thats what he did and your smokeing crack when he's talking about a 70 gto how can you put a 68 or a 69 endura on a 70 when body lines dont match are you stupid ,,you put my spelling down.thats alright but at least i know what iam talking about unlike your dumb ass and at least people on this site know that and your stupid get a life get a job get real,,,& better yet get outa this site go were there are back yard mechanics that dont know any thing.... but think they know it all like you i bet you had a 10 sec car too didnt you RIGHT lol at you ......Travis



travis williams

who are you arguing with? lol

I was thinking the same thing, but didn't want to say anything.



70 Judge in the works!

Okay, first off travis, your probably smoking a bit of crack too, I mean first your giving him lots of advice, then you call him a dumbass, whats with that? He never said he knew lots in the first place and only started this disscussion for advice on whether to go for it or not. My opinion is to back off and leave him alone. And seriously, get some proffesional help.

Greg ive been talking about your dumb ass sorry your so stupid you cant even tell when some is calling you a dip @!#$ not Tim but you how in the hell can you put a 68 or 69 gto lemans grill i=onto a 1970 goat we all know well almost all of us know that 70s are diff, body styles and i would love to see you put a 68/69 lemans or gto grill onto a 70 gto or lemans it wont fit know dumb ass iam talking to you GREG go back to school better yet get a book on gtos so you can see for your self how stupid you are if any one out there has taken advise from this fake throw it away ... if he dont know these bodys are not the same what else dont he know but thinks he might good god man go smoke your crack pipe because its all about the good green bud your just up in smoke like your motor under the hood



travis williams