Welcome!
» Log In
» Create A New Profile
Home
>
Auto Detailing: Secrets of the Experts
>
Topic
Too Layer or Not to Layer???
Posted by Eric Brandenburg
|
Too Layer or Not to Layer??? June 17, 2004 03:45PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 243 |
<HTML>There have been many folks on the forum talking about layering Sealant/Waxes/Glazes and so on! I have tried a couple of products just to say I've "DUN-IT" . I haven't seen any difference in the out come,but my eyes are old,and I don't see like I use 2. Unless I'm using the wrong sequence, or wrong materials it looks like a big waste of time 2 me.I would appreciate if some of the most experienced Pro's on the Forum give some input on this one, or clear this thing up once and for all. I see it as some sort of VooDoo/Special Prefrence,or what ever you want to call it. If there is some way of making a measurement on protection/shine/gloss,and most of all will it last longer than just a regular Sealant, or say the best Sealant on the market. Time is money for all of us,and if the customer is getting the very best product, and chemicals that you have ,why waste more time and energy doing something that doesn't do anything but add "Window Dressing" ........................ Brandy !</HTML>
Thanks Webb Master for getting me back on Line!.....Brandy
Thanks Webb Master for getting me back on Line!.....Brandy
|
Re: Too Layer or Not to Layer??? June 17, 2004 11:06PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 6 |
<HTML>Once the thin layer of wax has been applied, you're wasting time and money applying another. It is a fact that only a small amount of wax remains after it has been buffed off. Applying more is not going to make it look any more glossy than is did with the first coat. In this case, more is not better.</HTML>
|
Re: Too Layer or Not to Layer??? June 17, 2004 11:40PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 466 |
<HTML>Many people, pro and enthusiast alike, lay down a sealant, like Wolfgang, Klasse SG, Blackfire, UPP or Meguiars #20 and because a polymer can give a rather "sterile" appearance they like to top that off with a carnauba paste wax. Some liquid waxes work well also like Pinnacle Liquid Souveran.
Most clients do not notice the difference BUT they do notice when (if I have been topping their sealant for some time) I leave out the carnauba topper.
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
Most clients do not notice the difference BUT they do notice when (if I have been topping their sealant for some time) I leave out the carnauba topper.
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
|
Re: Too Layer or Not to Layer??? June 17, 2004 11:49PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
|
Re: Too Layer or Not to Layer??? June 18, 2004 05:48AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>I guess it's just a matter of preference. My Jeep is silver so I use just sealant, even though it doesn't produce the deep polished look shine to it. Now, if I had a black car, I'd want it looking a "wet" and reflective as possible.
Would I layer? Doubtful. Reason being, I use a sealant that does both, shinest and gives great durability.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
Would I layer? Doubtful. Reason being, I use a sealant that does both, shinest and gives great durability.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
|
Re: Too Layer or Not to Layer??? June 18, 2004 11:48AM |
<HTML>Since I started my detailing business in 1986, I have always offered my auto detailing customers the option of an additional layer of Meguiar's #20 Polymer Sealant.
Yes, many of my customers are willing to pay a premium of Twenty Dollars for the added UV protection of #20 topped with a coat of #26 Carnauba Wax. And many of my boat customers are willing to pay a premium of $59 for the added layer of UV protection of Meguiar's #55 Polymer Sealant for boats.
When you layer these products you get the added UV protection of the Polymer Sealant along with the ultimate high gloss shine of the Carnauba Wax. This combo works very well, especially on dark colored vehicles.</HTML>
Yes, many of my customers are willing to pay a premium of Twenty Dollars for the added UV protection of #20 topped with a coat of #26 Carnauba Wax. And many of my boat customers are willing to pay a premium of $59 for the added layer of UV protection of Meguiar's #55 Polymer Sealant for boats.
When you layer these products you get the added UV protection of the Polymer Sealant along with the ultimate high gloss shine of the Carnauba Wax. This combo works very well, especially on dark colored vehicles.</HTML>
|
Re: Too Layer or Not to Layer??? June 18, 2004 12:06PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 243 |
<HTML>Bud: What do I expect to achieve in Layering sealants/waxes???? I don't know! The reason that I tried it as stated in My original thread, was Just that,- To say I did try it!! Other detailers were saying how much better the vehicles were coming out when layering this,with that, and some other product over something else. I hope this makes sense? I'm a very Non gullable Black-N-White person. I'm willing to try anything,my service record will show you that. I did get an Email back from Willie "G" and he gave me an answer, that I could better understand, of how it could work,and that was letting the Sealant completely cure before Waxing. You could do this on a personel vehicle, but time being Monies,you can't wait 24hrs for one product to cure before recoating it again with another. Bud I know you said that it took 24hrs for your Sealant to cure,and I assume that is what it is for probably all sealants,that may or may not be correct.
All I wanted clarified was, Is it a POSITIVE thing to layer,or is it NOT. Unless something drastically changes for me, I'm going to stay as I'm doing and have been doing. Putting product on, and touching up as needed when it starts to Haze, then Buffing it off.</HTML>
Thanks Webb Master for getting me back on Line!.....Brandy
All I wanted clarified was, Is it a POSITIVE thing to layer,or is it NOT. Unless something drastically changes for me, I'm going to stay as I'm doing and have been doing. Putting product on, and touching up as needed when it starts to Haze, then Buffing it off.</HTML>
Thanks Webb Master for getting me back on Line!.....Brandy
|
Re: Too Layer or Not to Layer??? June 18, 2004 01:37PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 866 |
<HTML>In my experience layering is a total waste of time. I haven’t found that the vehicle is protected more or that layering enhances the shine any.
Spend your time in the prep work (cleaning , polishing, paint correction) that is where you will achieve the dramatic effect of a deep brilliant shine.
Here a re a few pics of vehicles topped with one coat Meguiars #20.
Only one coat--------
<img src=http://www.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/184DETAILING_085-med.jpg>
<img src=http://www.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/184DETAILING_1204.jpg>
<img src=http://[www.meguiarsonline.com];
<img src=http://www.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/1842sexy1-med.jpg></HTML>
-----------------------------------------------------
Plays in the rain --- www.SuperiorShineDetailing.com
Spend your time in the prep work (cleaning , polishing, paint correction) that is where you will achieve the dramatic effect of a deep brilliant shine.
Here a re a few pics of vehicles topped with one coat Meguiars #20.
Only one coat--------
<img src=http://www.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/184DETAILING_085-med.jpg>
<img src=http://www.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/184DETAILING_1204.jpg>
<img src=http://[www.meguiarsonline.com];
<img src=http://www.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/1842sexy1-med.jpg></HTML>
-----------------------------------------------------
Plays in the rain --- www.SuperiorShineDetailing.com
|
Re: Too Layer or Not to Layer??? June 18, 2004 02:06PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Brandy:
First and foremost, my posting to you was not at all intended to be confrontive or challenging. In fact, it was not made to you directly but all detailers who might want to ask the same question.
My chemists and I have discussed this subject numerous times and they always chuckle when I ask them about it. Of course, you have to remember that chemists are scientists and they will first look at an issue analytically.
With applying a wax all you get in putting more on is a thicker layer which is prone to show fingerprints, etc.
With a sealant, layering does really no good after one coat.
However, you could put an oily wax over the sealant and on a dark car, if there were a great quantity of oil in the wax, you would possibly get a deep gloss. And, the wax would act as a protective coating for the sealant and make it last alittle longer.
But to what end??? As you say, time is money and that is what it is all about.
The other point to consider is that if you used a product that gave a great shine with the first application why would you need to enhance it.
And, shine or gloss is a matter of opinion unless you have before and after readings with a Glossometer.
Many people on the forum say that DIAMOND PLUS leaves a superb shine and yet others say it is not so good. It is the same product, how do you explain that.
Personally this conversation of "layering" is typical of the wasted time detailers spend on unnecessary technical things when the same energy spent on learning how to and implementing programs to grow the business would be better spent.
Any businessperson is in business to make money, not create works of art.
Remember Van Gogh, committed suicide a penniless artist, creating works of art that no one appreciated in this day, yet today his works are worth millions. So what is the point. He should have painted pictures that people wanted to buy.
If you want a direct answer from me on layering: "Not worth it, not necessary and the customer does not expect it."
Regards
bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
First and foremost, my posting to you was not at all intended to be confrontive or challenging. In fact, it was not made to you directly but all detailers who might want to ask the same question.
My chemists and I have discussed this subject numerous times and they always chuckle when I ask them about it. Of course, you have to remember that chemists are scientists and they will first look at an issue analytically.
With applying a wax all you get in putting more on is a thicker layer which is prone to show fingerprints, etc.
With a sealant, layering does really no good after one coat.
However, you could put an oily wax over the sealant and on a dark car, if there were a great quantity of oil in the wax, you would possibly get a deep gloss. And, the wax would act as a protective coating for the sealant and make it last alittle longer.
But to what end??? As you say, time is money and that is what it is all about.
The other point to consider is that if you used a product that gave a great shine with the first application why would you need to enhance it.
And, shine or gloss is a matter of opinion unless you have before and after readings with a Glossometer.
Many people on the forum say that DIAMOND PLUS leaves a superb shine and yet others say it is not so good. It is the same product, how do you explain that.
Personally this conversation of "layering" is typical of the wasted time detailers spend on unnecessary technical things when the same energy spent on learning how to and implementing programs to grow the business would be better spent.
Any businessperson is in business to make money, not create works of art.
Remember Van Gogh, committed suicide a penniless artist, creating works of art that no one appreciated in this day, yet today his works are worth millions. So what is the point. He should have painted pictures that people wanted to buy.
If you want a direct answer from me on layering: "Not worth it, not necessary and the customer does not expect it."
Regards
bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
|
Re: Too Layer or Not to Layer??? June 18, 2004 02:09PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Frank:
Now that is the most logic posting I have seen on this subject. If you can convince the cusotmer that it is worth it to have you put an additional layer of wax/sealant on the car, and they are willing to pay you $20 more, go for it.
That is what I was saying to Brandy, it is all about making money in business, certainly giving value and service. But when you give to much service and do not get compensated you loose.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
Now that is the most logic posting I have seen on this subject. If you can convince the cusotmer that it is worth it to have you put an additional layer of wax/sealant on the car, and they are willing to pay you $20 more, go for it.
That is what I was saying to Brandy, it is all about making money in business, certainly giving value and service. But when you give to much service and do not get compensated you loose.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
|
Re: Too Layer or Not to Layer??? June 18, 2004 02:34PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Joe:
Absolutely correct, in my opinion too. The key point you made was in the preparation.
Shine or gloss is a result of reflection off the surface. The smoother the surface the more reflection you will get. That is why a car with orange peel does not shine as much as one that has been wet sanded to remove the orange peel and smooth the surface.
Another example is the difference between a pair of leather shoes that have been brush shined vs spit-shined. There is no comparison.
The spit-shined shoes have had a great deal of friction and pressure put on the leather to smooth it out and that is what creates the shine.
That is why you get a "shine" when you polish a paint with a high speed buffer and a polishing pad and appropriate polish. All steps necessary before putting on the wax or sealant.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
Absolutely correct, in my opinion too. The key point you made was in the preparation.
Shine or gloss is a result of reflection off the surface. The smoother the surface the more reflection you will get. That is why a car with orange peel does not shine as much as one that has been wet sanded to remove the orange peel and smooth the surface.
Another example is the difference between a pair of leather shoes that have been brush shined vs spit-shined. There is no comparison.
The spit-shined shoes have had a great deal of friction and pressure put on the leather to smooth it out and that is what creates the shine.
That is why you get a "shine" when you polish a paint with a high speed buffer and a polishing pad and appropriate polish. All steps necessary before putting on the wax or sealant.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
|
Re: Too Layer or Not to Layer??? June 18, 2004 02:34PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Joe:
Absolutely correct, in my opinion too. The key point you made was in the preparation.
Shine or gloss is a result of reflection off the surface. The smoother the surface the more reflection you will get. That is why a car with orange peel does not shine as much as one that has been wet sanded to remove the orange peel and smooth the surface.
Another example is the difference between a pair of leather shoes that have been brush shined vs spit-shined. There is no comparison.
The spit-shined shoes have had a great deal of friction and pressure put on the leather to smooth it out and that is what creates the shine.
That is why you get a "shine" when you polish a paint with a high speed buffer and a polishing pad and appropriate polish. All steps necessary before putting on the wax or sealant.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
Absolutely correct, in my opinion too. The key point you made was in the preparation.
Shine or gloss is a result of reflection off the surface. The smoother the surface the more reflection you will get. That is why a car with orange peel does not shine as much as one that has been wet sanded to remove the orange peel and smooth the surface.
Another example is the difference between a pair of leather shoes that have been brush shined vs spit-shined. There is no comparison.
The spit-shined shoes have had a great deal of friction and pressure put on the leather to smooth it out and that is what creates the shine.
That is why you get a "shine" when you polish a paint with a high speed buffer and a polishing pad and appropriate polish. All steps necessary before putting on the wax or sealant.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
|
Re: Too Layer or Not to Layer??? June 18, 2004 05:55PM |
<HTML>When I first started using the combo of #26 Carnauba Wax over top of #20 Polymer Sealant I contacted Meguiar's to see what they thought of my process. They agreed with the process and said that since the #20 did have a bit more cleaning action, it would be okay to follow-up with a top coat of carnauba. Back in the early days I was offering the UV Polymer Protection option for only Ten Dollars per vehicle. Now it's a Twenty Dollar add on.
Keep in mind, that the polymer topped with carnauba really only appears to enhance the gloss on black and other dark colored vehicles. However, I offer the option as a UV Protection option. Not a gloss enhancer. My customers love the idea of knowing that there vehicle has an added coat of protection.
Remember the word protection. That is one of the primary reasons why most of my customers get their car detailed in the first place.</HTML>
Keep in mind, that the polymer topped with carnauba really only appears to enhance the gloss on black and other dark colored vehicles. However, I offer the option as a UV Protection option. Not a gloss enhancer. My customers love the idea of knowing that there vehicle has an added coat of protection.
Remember the word protection. That is one of the primary reasons why most of my customers get their car detailed in the first place.</HTML>
|
Re: Buda! 2 Layer June 18, 2004 06:53PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 243 |
<HTML>Hey Bud, I didn't take your thread as being confrontative or challenging. Reading into what someone else writes, is as You have said on this forum site, as well as your own site,You Don't get to see the Body Language and sometimes people take something, as something else! I hope this makes since? This all gets back to what both you, and Grump Ketchum have said many times before,that some detailers spend to much time reinventing the wheel! I guess what I had in mind, that I totaly didn't put into my first thread,which was my fault,as I assume that everybody knows to spend what ever time it takes to properly prep a vehicle,and the most important is what Both you and Joe said,was be sure the surface was level.Water Sand,compound buff,or what ever it takes to pre-prepair the finish for the Sealant or Wax. Hell Bud/Joe, to prove to you guys what I'm talking about I've been using a telephoto lens on my wifes Sony DVD Camcorder to show before and after paint corrections to some of our clients to prove to them they aren't just getting a filling job,and we're truly correcting what can be corrected. When you can back up your rappin to the customer It ain't braggin.
Once again me being the novis,I'm reading what others are doing,asking advice,and trying to put out good work. I don't want to spend anymore time than needed to turn out a good product,making a happy customer..Brandy !</HTML>
Thanks Webb Master for getting me back on Line!.....Brandy
Once again me being the novis,I'm reading what others are doing,asking advice,and trying to put out good work. I don't want to spend anymore time than needed to turn out a good product,making a happy customer..Brandy !</HTML>
Thanks Webb Master for getting me back on Line!.....Brandy
|
Re: Buda! 2 Layer June 18, 2004 08:10PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Brandy
Thanks for the email. You call yourself a novice, but the key to your success is that you "know what you don't know." A smart man, in my book, is one who does know what he does not know.
Those who don't know they don't know do not ask questions.
You are always asking questions which means to me that you know that you do not have all the answers. Even if you do have them you still want to verify.
This is what our industry needs, people who have what the Japanese call "SHOSHIN", that is a beginners mind. It a mind that is not closed. An empty mind. As they say, if the mind is empty it is always read for anything. It is open to everything.
In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, however in the experts mind there are few.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
Thanks for the email. You call yourself a novice, but the key to your success is that you "know what you don't know." A smart man, in my book, is one who does know what he does not know.
Those who don't know they don't know do not ask questions.
You are always asking questions which means to me that you know that you do not have all the answers. Even if you do have them you still want to verify.
This is what our industry needs, people who have what the Japanese call "SHOSHIN", that is a beginners mind. It a mind that is not closed. An empty mind. As they say, if the mind is empty it is always read for anything. It is open to everything.
In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, however in the experts mind there are few.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
|
Re: Buda! 2 Layer June 19, 2004 01:31AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
|
Re: Buda! 2 Layer June 19, 2004 02:38AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 466 |
<HTML>Oh man....I really tried to not write anything but I can't.....sorry.
The statement of having a beginners mind is contradictory since it comes from the mind of one who is NOT a begginer....get it?
It was the "expert" who came along and said....."In the begginers mind there are many possibilities" The expert mind has many possibilities, even thinking the thought...."In the begginers mind there are many possibilities"
The detailing industry does not need Eastern philosophy because it is illogical and contradictory. It needs logic and critical thinking (I could write more but I'll end it here).
So again I apologize if I offend anyone, nor am I flaming anyone. Words have meaning.
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
The statement of having a beginners mind is contradictory since it comes from the mind of one who is NOT a begginer....get it?
It was the "expert" who came along and said....."In the begginers mind there are many possibilities" The expert mind has many possibilities, even thinking the thought...."In the begginers mind there are many possibilities"
The detailing industry does not need Eastern philosophy because it is illogical and contradictory. It needs logic and critical thinking (I could write more but I'll end it here).
So again I apologize if I offend anyone, nor am I flaming anyone. Words have meaning.
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
|
Re: Buda! 2 Layer June 19, 2004 02:58AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
|
Re: Buda! 2 Layer June 19, 2004 03:23AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 499 |
<HTML>Come on guys. It just takes common sense and a little knowledge of basic chemistry to tell you that "layering" or "topping" sealants or waxes is pure voodoo/witchcraft/superstition/urban legend nonsense. I personally don't need to debate the pros and cons because I have got the information that satisfies me and that's good enough. Apparently not for others. Anyone who wants to have a great "discussion" on layering can always mosey on over to Autopia and hear the locals regale them with tales of 25 coats of Zaino or P21S or Klasse or Zymol or whatever the latest, greatest product is. Not trying to be an A-hole but this is supposed to be about proper process and procedure.</HTML>
|
Re: Buda! 2 Layer June 19, 2004 03:40AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>Ahhh, Scotty, does it not become somewhat of a burden to have the use of logic and live in a world, of those who only want "easy answers" and to not have to think, use simple logic?
Life is what it is, but as you know, I know and few others around here, if we just stop and think, use the "logic", we see a lot of B/S being floated about this "pool of life".
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
Life is what it is, but as you know, I know and few others around here, if we just stop and think, use the "logic", we see a lot of B/S being floated about this "pool of life".
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
|
Re: Buda! 2 Layer June 19, 2004 05:53AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
|
Re: Buda! 2 Layer June 19, 2004 06:54AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
<HTML>I agree.....what a joke ! "Layering" several "coats" of sealant or wax is a waste of time and products,in my opinion,that time SHOULD be better used(by the detailer) in preping the paint surface AS NEEDED correctly BEFORE the application of a sealant or wax.
If your telling your customers they are getting more "protection" with added layers of products(whatever they may be), you are just deceiving them into believing something that's simply not true, you are just charging them for an EXTRA that dosen't really provide ANY "extra" protection....BUT there is a market for this "added protection" extra to be offered to SOME customers who don't know the difference(none) in a single layer or two or three layers of diferent products, more dosen't ALWAYS= better, it just COST more....$20 more....some customers JUST continue to think the more they pay for a detailing job, it must mean more work is preformed for the increased price or better quality service or more protection is added to justify the added cost to them,not ALWAYS true......why pay MORE ? if you don't really get any "extra protection" in return. Some people are just suckers to pay more than is really needed to do the same job
.....kinda like some people paying more, alot more for high octane(93) gas for their vehicle because they think it's better for the engine than regular octane gas(87)....which is well-known scam by the oil companies, your engine only requires(to run correctly) regular octane gas as recommened by all auto makers in the owner's manual.....but try to tell thay to someone who has continued to overpay using high-octane gas for many years....they are convinced that their car runs better and NEEDS the high-octane gas...WHY pay more for something that is NOT needed.....some consumers just continue to think "if I pay more,I must be getting more,right ?" when actully all their really getting is someone else TELLING them that it's better and needed and worth the extra cost to them.
I guess if you can charge more than others for the same quality service that's fine as long as you can get away with it,UNTIL they find out the FACTS from others in the biz(your competition) that their paying more for something not really needed.....then you must explain to them WHY you charged them more for this extra "protection" or service that really was'nt needed.</HTML>
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
If your telling your customers they are getting more "protection" with added layers of products(whatever they may be), you are just deceiving them into believing something that's simply not true, you are just charging them for an EXTRA that dosen't really provide ANY "extra" protection....BUT there is a market for this "added protection" extra to be offered to SOME customers who don't know the difference(none) in a single layer or two or three layers of diferent products, more dosen't ALWAYS= better, it just COST more....$20 more....some customers JUST continue to think the more they pay for a detailing job, it must mean more work is preformed for the increased price or better quality service or more protection is added to justify the added cost to them,not ALWAYS true......why pay MORE ? if you don't really get any "extra protection" in return. Some people are just suckers to pay more than is really needed to do the same job
.....kinda like some people paying more, alot more for high octane(93) gas for their vehicle because they think it's better for the engine than regular octane gas(87)....which is well-known scam by the oil companies, your engine only requires(to run correctly) regular octane gas as recommened by all auto makers in the owner's manual.....but try to tell thay to someone who has continued to overpay using high-octane gas for many years....they are convinced that their car runs better and NEEDS the high-octane gas...WHY pay more for something that is NOT needed.....some consumers just continue to think "if I pay more,I must be getting more,right ?" when actully all their really getting is someone else TELLING them that it's better and needed and worth the extra cost to them.
I guess if you can charge more than others for the same quality service that's fine as long as you can get away with it,UNTIL they find out the FACTS from others in the biz(your competition) that their paying more for something not really needed.....then you must explain to them WHY you charged them more for this extra "protection" or service that really was'nt needed.</HTML>
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
|
Re: Buda! 2 Layer June 19, 2004 10:34AM |
|
Re: Buda! 2 Layer June 19, 2004 01:24PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Chris Gaines:
Your intentions are good, but you are not correct in saying the customer is getting nothing for their money.
As stated, if you apply a layer of carnuaba wax/synthetic carnuaba wax over a coat of sealant you will get additional protection. The coat of wax will provide a sacrifical layer to protect the sealant. That is, the wax will have to wear off before that environmental elements can attack and wear away the sealant.
Is it necessary? Between you and I, NO!! Only because the sealant is enough in my opinion.
But, if the customer wants to pay extra that is their choice, they are getting something for their money, not just hype.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
Your intentions are good, but you are not correct in saying the customer is getting nothing for their money.
As stated, if you apply a layer of carnuaba wax/synthetic carnuaba wax over a coat of sealant you will get additional protection. The coat of wax will provide a sacrifical layer to protect the sealant. That is, the wax will have to wear off before that environmental elements can attack and wear away the sealant.
Is it necessary? Between you and I, NO!! Only because the sealant is enough in my opinion.
But, if the customer wants to pay extra that is their choice, they are getting something for their money, not just hype.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
|
Re: Buda! 2 Layer June 19, 2004 01:34PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 466 |
<HTML>Bud,
My post has no direct point with layering waxes and such but then again nor does the post about having an "empty mind"
As I wrote, please forgive me for my comments as they were not directed towards you in any sense but rather the concept of beginners having an empty mind. I find it illogical because of my background and studies, that's all. I avoided commenting on it before but this time I just couldn't help it, sorry to be a distraction to the thread, I over analyze many things and that's one of my many hang ups.
I do grasp though the "idea" of what you are saying. When I owned my Dojo and a new student came in from another form of martial art my head instructor would say....."You need to come into our Dojo with an empty cup" Meaning if they are unwilling to learn our system from the ground up (keeping their cup full of their system) how then can we fill their cup with our system?
One last thought here, in regards to an "open" mind, which does pertain to this thread.
One cannot be critical of others who seek to layer their waxes or place waxes on sealants and then claim to have or need an "open mind" a "beginners mind" for they are then "closing" their mind to the thought of layering.
Take care,
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
My post has no direct point with layering waxes and such but then again nor does the post about having an "empty mind"
As I wrote, please forgive me for my comments as they were not directed towards you in any sense but rather the concept of beginners having an empty mind. I find it illogical because of my background and studies, that's all. I avoided commenting on it before but this time I just couldn't help it, sorry to be a distraction to the thread, I over analyze many things and that's one of my many hang ups.
I do grasp though the "idea" of what you are saying. When I owned my Dojo and a new student came in from another form of martial art my head instructor would say....."You need to come into our Dojo with an empty cup" Meaning if they are unwilling to learn our system from the ground up (keeping their cup full of their system) how then can we fill their cup with our system?
One last thought here, in regards to an "open" mind, which does pertain to this thread.
One cannot be critical of others who seek to layer their waxes or place waxes on sealants and then claim to have or need an "open mind" a "beginners mind" for they are then "closing" their mind to the thought of layering.
Take care,
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
|
Re: Buda! 2 Layer June 19, 2004 01:39PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
|
Re: Buda! 2 Layer June 19, 2004 02:36PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 30 |
<HTML>When I posted the 2 sealant thread it was the added gloss and clarity on a 18 year old paint that had been properly cleaned and protected 4 months ago... didnt do it for a customer...didnt do it for money..had nothing to do with the business period..one of my personel vehicles that I do use as a product test vehicle.Yes I top off some vehicles with a coat of wax after the curing has occured for the oil makes the paint have more clarity and to make the sealant last a little longer...</HTML>
|
Re: Buda! 2 Layer June 20, 2004 04:04AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
<HTML>Let me re-phrase my comment....in my opinion by ADDING a wax layer on top of a layer sealant is NOT needed for the long lasting protection desired on the clear coat finish...I agree with you(buda)....the sealant alone is enough protection(6mo max.) my point is....Why would you recommend something that's not really needed....WHY ?....because it's an easy way to increase the overall price of the job with just a little more work.... granted your are giving them more LAYERS for the money when you apply wax over sealant,BUT is IT really needed....NO, that extra layer is not that much extra protection.....and not worth the extra money you charge them and will wear off fairly quickly compared to the sealant,which is what remains to protect the surface long term, NOT the added wax layer.
...But I agree IF the customer request OR beleives an extra layer of wax over the sealant is better and is willing to pay more for it,then like they say "GIVE the customer what THEY want".Just don't tell them it's NEEDED for long lasting protection of the clear coat,just tell them it's an extra option you offer over the top of the sealant layer & IF they choose it FINE,let them decide IF they want it.Then if LATER they find out from others in the business ..... that it is not really NEEDED,it was THEIR decision, not YOU telling them they NEEDED it for proper protection.</HTML>
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
...But I agree IF the customer request OR beleives an extra layer of wax over the sealant is better and is willing to pay more for it,then like they say "GIVE the customer what THEY want".Just don't tell them it's NEEDED for long lasting protection of the clear coat,just tell them it's an extra option you offer over the top of the sealant layer & IF they choose it FINE,let them decide IF they want it.Then if LATER they find out from others in the business ..... that it is not really NEEDED,it was THEIR decision, not YOU telling them they NEEDED it for proper protection.</HTML>
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
|
Re: Buda! 2 Layer June 20, 2004 04:11AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
<HTML>Why is it that people on the forum feel compeled to explain themselves to buda as if he was an authority in detailing.
From reading the posts over the years, I believe everyone is a frofessional and knows what they are doing</HTML>
"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
www.waynestowels.com
From reading the posts over the years, I believe everyone is a frofessional and knows what they are doing
</HTML>"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
www.waynestowels.com
|
Re: Buda! 2 Layer June 20, 2004 05:04AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
<HTML> I don't ALWAYS feel compleled to explain myself to him on every topic or agree with him on most things,but sometimes just enjoy some freindly debate from him (or others)on topics that interest me OR if I feel I can offer a different point of veiw THAT MIGHT HELP OTHERS here based on MY different experiences in the biz than from him or others....I WELCOME his input and others as well. The more differences in opinion here the better....I welcome his and YOURS.... even though I don't agree with either ALL the time.</HTML>
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.