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Collionite 845 Insulator wax
Posted by ghost from the past
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Collionite 845 Insulator wax November 18, 2004 11:08AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 266 |
<HTML>Here again is one of those little known (to car care enthusiasts) waxes that has little to no commercial advertising, yet seems to perform better than the expensive 'boutique' waxes. I recently purchased a pint bottle for $11 & change at a semi-local auto parts store for personal use/testing.
Here are my posts to 'another forum' about my first few days using and observing this wax. I know, it's not scientific or controlled, purely subjective, but it's the best I can do:
Post #1 Monday, PM
***Ok, 1st mini review:
Apparently the bottle I picked up has been on the shelf for a while, because it was in a "thickened snot" type consistency. I ended up shaking the bottle for probably 1/2 hour, and it turned into a "runny snot" texture. As for the smell, I didn't think it smelled good or bad, just kind of a chemical smell.
With a polishing pad and the PC on '4,' I put a few mists of water on the pad, and another few on the surface of the car. I'd heard that IW spreads insanely well, so I put a few dime sized drops on the pad...they were right, the way this stuff spreads is insane. It took several minutes buffing an area before the water droplets disappeared, but I contribute that to the 52* temps outside. After buffing for a while, it would seem like you were no longer putting anything down on the surface, but a change of angle, and you could se you were still putting down a nice thin coat.
I went ahead and covered the car (except for the front bumper/rear bumper), then started lap 2 around the car removing the haze with a MF. No surprizes here, it buffed off without incident, and I could feel that it was pretty slick, even under the MF, which usually 'grabs' even the slickest surface. It's been about an hour since I removed the IW, so I'm going to put coat #2 on in a bit. I'm not going to bother with pics, since I doubt there will be a visible difference that will show up on film (or pixels in this case).
PS: I think the bottle sucks for application, the big opening doesn't lend itself very well to applying IW sparingly. I took a 2 oz bottle I had left over from an old Zaino order and put about 1- 1/2 oz of IW in that...much better.***
Post #2 Monday, 1800 hours
***I applied the second coat a while ago. I used a finishing pad this time, but still used the water mist trick. Originally I only used six drops of IW to prime the pad. From that point on, I only needed four drops of insulator wax to re-prime the pad and cover at least two more panels!
All I can say is that if this stuff is HALF as good as it's supposed to be, it has to be THE most cost-effective, high performance wax in the world. I've never even had a synthetic spread that well.***
Post #3 (This morning)
***It rained like crazy yesterday, and when I got out to the car, the water had (no surprise) beaded like crazy. There was a definite pattern on the roof where the water in the center formed a point (one LARGE high-standing bead), and all the rest of the beads radiated out toward the edges in straight lines, and were VERY tight. The hood was similarly patterned, and the sides had hundreds of vertical lines made up of thousands of beads.
The "drive it dry" concept was amazing. Even though it had been soaked by the rain, and driven 45 miles in rain/splash from other cars, when I pulled into my driveway, the car looked like it had just been washed & waxed and it had a few SMALL drops of water on it...like it had JUST started sprinkling.
This stuff is going to be FUN to watch and evaluate when the snow starts to fly.***</HTML>
-ghost of a past detailer
Here are my posts to 'another forum' about my first few days using and observing this wax. I know, it's not scientific or controlled, purely subjective, but it's the best I can do:
Post #1 Monday, PM
***Ok, 1st mini review:
Apparently the bottle I picked up has been on the shelf for a while, because it was in a "thickened snot" type consistency. I ended up shaking the bottle for probably 1/2 hour, and it turned into a "runny snot" texture. As for the smell, I didn't think it smelled good or bad, just kind of a chemical smell.
With a polishing pad and the PC on '4,' I put a few mists of water on the pad, and another few on the surface of the car. I'd heard that IW spreads insanely well, so I put a few dime sized drops on the pad...they were right, the way this stuff spreads is insane. It took several minutes buffing an area before the water droplets disappeared, but I contribute that to the 52* temps outside. After buffing for a while, it would seem like you were no longer putting anything down on the surface, but a change of angle, and you could se you were still putting down a nice thin coat.
I went ahead and covered the car (except for the front bumper/rear bumper), then started lap 2 around the car removing the haze with a MF. No surprizes here, it buffed off without incident, and I could feel that it was pretty slick, even under the MF, which usually 'grabs' even the slickest surface. It's been about an hour since I removed the IW, so I'm going to put coat #2 on in a bit. I'm not going to bother with pics, since I doubt there will be a visible difference that will show up on film (or pixels in this case).
PS: I think the bottle sucks for application, the big opening doesn't lend itself very well to applying IW sparingly. I took a 2 oz bottle I had left over from an old Zaino order and put about 1- 1/2 oz of IW in that...much better.***
Post #2 Monday, 1800 hours
***I applied the second coat a while ago. I used a finishing pad this time, but still used the water mist trick. Originally I only used six drops of IW to prime the pad. From that point on, I only needed four drops of insulator wax to re-prime the pad and cover at least two more panels!
All I can say is that if this stuff is HALF as good as it's supposed to be, it has to be THE most cost-effective, high performance wax in the world. I've never even had a synthetic spread that well.***
Post #3 (This morning)
***It rained like crazy yesterday, and when I got out to the car, the water had (no surprise) beaded like crazy. There was a definite pattern on the roof where the water in the center formed a point (one LARGE high-standing bead), and all the rest of the beads radiated out toward the edges in straight lines, and were VERY tight. The hood was similarly patterned, and the sides had hundreds of vertical lines made up of thousands of beads.
The "drive it dry" concept was amazing. Even though it had been soaked by the rain, and driven 45 miles in rain/splash from other cars, when I pulled into my driveway, the car looked like it had just been washed & waxed and it had a few SMALL drops of water on it...like it had JUST started sprinkling.
This stuff is going to be FUN to watch and evaluate when the snow starts to fly.***</HTML>
-ghost of a past detailer
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Re: Collionite 845 Insulator wax November 18, 2004 10:52PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 201 |
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Re: Collionite 845 Insulator wax November 18, 2004 10:55PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 634 |
<HTML> Hey Ghost, I dont comment here alot anymore but I have always enjoyed you posts. I also agree about the easy application of Insulator Wax. It also is easy to wipe off. Although you mentioned using you PC to apply it I like to do it with a micro-fiber hand applicator. I get them in bulk from Top Of The Line.
Insulator does last a long time and is as good and usually better than any sealant Ive tried. Bud's test seemed to give a less than triumphant report for it but I cant deny the results I am getting with the cars Im doing. I dont get too excited about the cost of it compared to bulk waxes or sealants either because I love the stuff and I get so many applications out of one bottle.
I buy bulk cleaning and buffing chemicals alot these days from Car Brite or Pro but my favorite waxes and sealants will always be Insualtor and Blitz Wax and I keep using those on all the cars I do because they satisfy me more than anything else I try.
I will be looking for you to tell how long lasting you felt the Insulator was on your car.
Best regards,
John</HTML>
Insulator does last a long time and is as good and usually better than any sealant Ive tried. Bud's test seemed to give a less than triumphant report for it but I cant deny the results I am getting with the cars Im doing. I dont get too excited about the cost of it compared to bulk waxes or sealants either because I love the stuff and I get so many applications out of one bottle.
I buy bulk cleaning and buffing chemicals alot these days from Car Brite or Pro but my favorite waxes and sealants will always be Insualtor and Blitz Wax and I keep using those on all the cars I do because they satisfy me more than anything else I try.
I will be looking for you to tell how long lasting you felt the Insulator was on your car.
Best regards,
John</HTML>
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Re: Collionite 845 Insulator wax November 19, 2004 01:26AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 266 |
<HTML>John, did you happen to notice that I mentioned the initial application to the pad was *six* DROPS (pea sized), and most subsequent applications to the pad were FOUR drops?
At that rate of use, this stuff is CHEAP. I just wonder how many drops there are in a pint? <img src="[www.detailcity.com];
-ghost of a past detailer
At that rate of use, this stuff is CHEAP. I just wonder how many drops there are in a pint? <img src="[www.detailcity.com];
-ghost of a past detailer
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Re: Collionite 845 Insulator wax November 19, 2004 01:48AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>It is a "great" product, one that I first became aware of in 1990, at the VW port in Houston.
It does what it says it will, it has a tough enough resin system to hold up to enviormental conditions.
Also, it is not really a "wax", but a combo of some waxes and a lot of quality polymer resins, in enough percentage to really do the job.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
It does what it says it will, it has a tough enough resin system to hold up to enviormental conditions.
Also, it is not really a "wax", but a combo of some waxes and a lot of quality polymer resins, in enough percentage to really do the job.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: Collionite 845 Insulator wax November 20, 2004 03:32PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>For your information Collinite #845 was among the 25 products tested in the Comparative Study of Automotive Paint Sealants & Waxes.
As you may recall the study tested products for three things:
a. Reflective shine before and after application using a Glossometer
b. Reflective shine after 12 washes using a Glossometer
c. Resistence to salt water corrosion
REFLECTIVE SHINE: the top three products were:
a. Klasse - 32.8% increase in shine
b. TST-5000 - 32.6% increase in shine
c. Valuguard - 32% increase in shine
COLLINITE #845 was 8th with a 27.4% increase in shine
AFTER 12 WASHINGS: (measuring gloss decrease) the top three were:
a. Zymol Cleaner - a 5.16% increase in gloss
b. Aerospace - a 1.8% increase in gloss
c. DIAMOND PLUS - 0.01% decrease
COLLINITE #845 was 25th with a 7.14% decrease in gloss.
The 24th product was P-73 Profection with a 4.92% decrease in gloss
RESISTENCE TO SALT WATER CORROSION: the top 3 products were:
a. Zaino Bros - #1 - excellent, little to no rust
DIAMOND PLUS - #1 - excellent, little to no rust
b. 885/Fleetwax - #2 - good, small amount of rust
Zymol Carbon - #2 - good, small amount of rust
COLLINITE #845 fell into the #3 catagory with 4 other products - poor, same amount of rust at the control panel which had no wax/sealant applied to it before being misted with salt water.
This is about as objective a test as you can obtain about the product.
Hope this information is of value.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
As you may recall the study tested products for three things:
a. Reflective shine before and after application using a Glossometer
b. Reflective shine after 12 washes using a Glossometer
c. Resistence to salt water corrosion
REFLECTIVE SHINE: the top three products were:
a. Klasse - 32.8% increase in shine
b. TST-5000 - 32.6% increase in shine
c. Valuguard - 32% increase in shine
COLLINITE #845 was 8th with a 27.4% increase in shine
AFTER 12 WASHINGS: (measuring gloss decrease) the top three were:
a. Zymol Cleaner - a 5.16% increase in gloss
b. Aerospace - a 1.8% increase in gloss
c. DIAMOND PLUS - 0.01% decrease
COLLINITE #845 was 25th with a 7.14% decrease in gloss.
The 24th product was P-73 Profection with a 4.92% decrease in gloss
RESISTENCE TO SALT WATER CORROSION: the top 3 products were:
a. Zaino Bros - #1 - excellent, little to no rust
DIAMOND PLUS - #1 - excellent, little to no rust
b. 885/Fleetwax - #2 - good, small amount of rust
Zymol Carbon - #2 - good, small amount of rust
COLLINITE #845 fell into the #3 catagory with 4 other products - poor, same amount of rust at the control panel which had no wax/sealant applied to it before being misted with salt water.
This is about as objective a test as you can obtain about the product.
Hope this information is of value.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Re: Collionite 845 Insulator wax November 20, 2004 03:44PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>A little interesting chemical information.
Polymers used in sealants need "a painted surface" to cationaicaly bond to, they don't do well when asked to bond to metal to provide protection.
For protection, IE rust resistant, the formula needs some wax in it.
Amino Functional resins, and there are a lot of them, do have the anti-corrossive abilities, but as said, need to be able to "bond" to the surface.
Since "clear" or "paint" has by nature, porusity, they bond very well and provide the intended protection.
The "wax" part, depends on "what wax", "what is it's molecular chain, (how tight), "what is the waxes fracture or evaporation temperature", etc.
Waxes, even the synthetic versions used in mold release waxes, don't go above 200F in most cases. These types of waxes may be added to vehicle wax/sealant formulas, but in very small percentages, otherwise the product is very hard wipe off, and most vehicle enthusists, detailers don't care for that.
Polymer resins, dependant upon what resin, what percentage in the formula, etc, may have a fracture/evaporation point of in excess of 360F.
But, once again, that would depend on the percentage, etc.
Most quality sealants of a polymer construction will contain a blend of resins and a small percentage of wax.
What wax, what polymer resins, only the chemist who formulated the product actually knows.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
Polymers used in sealants need "a painted surface" to cationaicaly bond to, they don't do well when asked to bond to metal to provide protection.
For protection, IE rust resistant, the formula needs some wax in it.
Amino Functional resins, and there are a lot of them, do have the anti-corrossive abilities, but as said, need to be able to "bond" to the surface.
Since "clear" or "paint" has by nature, porusity, they bond very well and provide the intended protection.
The "wax" part, depends on "what wax", "what is it's molecular chain, (how tight), "what is the waxes fracture or evaporation temperature", etc.
Waxes, even the synthetic versions used in mold release waxes, don't go above 200F in most cases. These types of waxes may be added to vehicle wax/sealant formulas, but in very small percentages, otherwise the product is very hard wipe off, and most vehicle enthusists, detailers don't care for that.
Polymer resins, dependant upon what resin, what percentage in the formula, etc, may have a fracture/evaporation point of in excess of 360F.
But, once again, that would depend on the percentage, etc.
Most quality sealants of a polymer construction will contain a blend of resins and a small percentage of wax.
What wax, what polymer resins, only the chemist who formulated the product actually knows.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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selant on mufflers November 20, 2004 09:21PM |
<HTML>I wanted to see how long ,if at all, my sealant of choice, Klasse SG, would hold up to the heat from my mufflers. I applied the product to the mufflers expecting it to burn off after more than a short drive or two. Shockingly, if beading is an indication, it held up rather well. I wonder if Klasse is in the category of formulas Ketch talks about that can hold up to temperatures in excess of 360F</HTML>
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Re: selant on mufflers November 21, 2004 04:02AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 201 |
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Re: selant on mufflers November 21, 2004 04:28AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Larry:
How do your friends know they are getting "fantastic durablity?" If they determine durability by water beading, this is falacious.
The fact is that the ingredients that cause the water to bead have nothing to do with durability of a wax/sealant product.
And, the ingredients that provide durability to not make the water bead.
KLASSE - after 12 washing is had a 0.68% decrease in shine which was 8th out of 25.
On resistence to salt water corrosion KLASSE was in the 5 catagory with 3 other products. #5 was bad, more rust than the unwaxed panel.
Only one product was #6 which was the worst, much more rust than the unwaxed panel.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS
www.detailplus.com</HTML>
buda
How do your friends know they are getting "fantastic durablity?" If they determine durability by water beading, this is falacious.
The fact is that the ingredients that cause the water to bead have nothing to do with durability of a wax/sealant product.
And, the ingredients that provide durability to not make the water bead.
KLASSE - after 12 washing is had a 0.68% decrease in shine which was 8th out of 25.
On resistence to salt water corrosion KLASSE was in the 5 catagory with 3 other products. #5 was bad, more rust than the unwaxed panel.
Only one product was #6 which was the worst, much more rust than the unwaxed panel.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS
www.detailplus.com</HTML>
buda
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Re: selant on mufflers November 21, 2004 03:23PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 201 |
<HTML>It is not my friends that get fantastic durability , but other people on other detailing web sites . It seems different people get different results . I know a pro detailer that thinks that Eagle One Nano is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and I know other people that think that its crap. Their are people that think that Nxt is not a durable product , others think that its very durable. I dont know what causes such difference in the same product. I sorry to hear that that Klasse does not prevent rust, mabe it only sticks to paint. Although they say it can be used on glass, washing the glass after with plain water will remove it from glass.</HTML>
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Re: selant on mufflers November 21, 2004 04:25PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Larry:
All these comments are only "unsubstantiated opinions" with no real basis in fact. Not that I am demeaning peoples opinions, but there is no way for anyone to know how shiny a product is nor how long it lasts without scientific measuring instruments, like a Glossometer and/or test models that measure certain aspects, such as durability.
It is not that all waxes/sealants will be subject to salt water, it is just that this is a test that allows the testors to measure all products against the same thing.
Question? How is it that some products had more rust than the control panel, which had no wax or sealant on it????
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
All these comments are only "unsubstantiated opinions" with no real basis in fact. Not that I am demeaning peoples opinions, but there is no way for anyone to know how shiny a product is nor how long it lasts without scientific measuring instruments, like a Glossometer and/or test models that measure certain aspects, such as durability.
It is not that all waxes/sealants will be subject to salt water, it is just that this is a test that allows the testors to measure all products against the same thing.
Question? How is it that some products had more rust than the control panel, which had no wax or sealant on it????
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Re: selant on mufflers November 21, 2004 04:47PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 201 |
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Re: selant on mufflers November 21, 2004 09:51PM |
<HTML>"Durability" and "gloss" are probably the most important attributes of a last step product I see discussed. Depending on the user, one may be more important than the other. Since it has apparently been established here neither one can truly be measured by human senses and are totally subjective, this brings up the issue of what attributes now, have objective significance that the user can concretely experience.
It sounds like "durability" and "gloss", not to mention "depth", which may very well be the subject of flame wars, are really all in the eye of the user.
Perhaps "Price", "Quantity available" and " Ease of Use" ( although also variable from user to user) for starters are a better ( more practical?)way to select a sealant or wax?</HTML>
It sounds like "durability" and "gloss", not to mention "depth", which may very well be the subject of flame wars, are really all in the eye of the user.
Perhaps "Price", "Quantity available" and " Ease of Use" ( although also variable from user to user) for starters are a better ( more practical?)way to select a sealant or wax?</HTML>
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Re: selant on mufflers November 22, 2004 02:10AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Bill:
You are hitting on some really key points for detailers in choosing products. Without the benefit of tests such as the one we had done, you really do not know what a product will do.
You can measure shine or gloss with your eye, to some degree, but that is subjective.
And, of course, we have no way of measuring durability. It was always thought that beading water is a test of durablity, but even compound will make the water bead and it has no protective qualities in the formulation other than oil.
Of course, you can say that a test like the one we did is prejudiced and of no value. That is true, but then you have to determine if the person presenting the test is trustworthy and providing honest information.
I can tell you that while we commissioned the test it was done with the utmost objectivity.
For that matter, it is tests like that we commissioned that allow a formulator of a wax/sealant to make a product as they want.
By using the Glossometer they can continue to put gloss enhancing ingredients in a product until it is better than the others.
Same is true with resistence to salt water corrosion. Just continue to add corrosion resistent ingredients until your product is better than those being compared to.
No real magic here. Any chemical company that wants to set up the test model can make the shiniest or most durable product on the market.
But our success in the business is not about chemicals, it is about process and knowledge.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
You are hitting on some really key points for detailers in choosing products. Without the benefit of tests such as the one we had done, you really do not know what a product will do.
You can measure shine or gloss with your eye, to some degree, but that is subjective.
And, of course, we have no way of measuring durability. It was always thought that beading water is a test of durablity, but even compound will make the water bead and it has no protective qualities in the formulation other than oil.
Of course, you can say that a test like the one we did is prejudiced and of no value. That is true, but then you have to determine if the person presenting the test is trustworthy and providing honest information.
I can tell you that while we commissioned the test it was done with the utmost objectivity.
For that matter, it is tests like that we commissioned that allow a formulator of a wax/sealant to make a product as they want.
By using the Glossometer they can continue to put gloss enhancing ingredients in a product until it is better than the others.
Same is true with resistence to salt water corrosion. Just continue to add corrosion resistent ingredients until your product is better than those being compared to.
No real magic here. Any chemical company that wants to set up the test model can make the shiniest or most durable product on the market.
But our success in the business is not about chemicals, it is about process and knowledge.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Re: selant on mufflers November 22, 2004 02:24AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 201 |
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Re: selant on mufflers November 22, 2004 01:17PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 634 |
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Re: sealant on mufflers November 22, 2004 03:02PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 266 |
<HTML>There was a huge variable difference between Bud's test and Steve's, namely, PAINT. None of the products tested (as far as I know) were designed to work on bare metal (as mentioned by others).
Bud's test has the benefit of total objectivity, and complete control of the environment the test panels were subjected to. I'm curious to know how much, if any, of a difference using painted panels would have affected his test results. Rust would no longer be a major indicator, but testing the increase of friction levels on the surface might be an option (just like traffic accident investigations use the friction coefficient of the roadway to determine how slick, or 'grippy' the road surface is).</HTML>
-ghost of a past detailer
Bud's test has the benefit of total objectivity, and complete control of the environment the test panels were subjected to. I'm curious to know how much, if any, of a difference using painted panels would have affected his test results. Rust would no longer be a major indicator, but testing the increase of friction levels on the surface might be an option (just like traffic accident investigations use the friction coefficient of the roadway to determine how slick, or 'grippy' the road surface is).</HTML>
-ghost of a past detailer
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Re: sealant on mufflers November 22, 2004 03:11PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Grumpy:
Thanks for the commentary. However, if there were paint on the surface of the metal panel there would be no rust to measure.
Further, the fact that some rusted worse than others indicates, does it not that there was something covering the metal panel?
Finally, considering your comments answer, "why did some panels have more rust on them than the control panel, with not protection?"
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
Thanks for the commentary. However, if there were paint on the surface of the metal panel there would be no rust to measure.
Further, the fact that some rusted worse than others indicates, does it not that there was something covering the metal panel?
Finally, considering your comments answer, "why did some panels have more rust on them than the control panel, with not protection?"
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Re: sealant on mufflers November 22, 2004 03:40PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 17 |
<HTML>Some more interesting chemical information:
Some of the best corrosion inhibitors in the world do not contain wax.
It appears as though the "Diamond Plus" product mentioned in the testing was formulated to bond to both painted and non painted surfaces. That is evident by the above average test results obtained on both surfaces. Not an easy task. Protecting bare metal surfaces would be beneficial when there are scratches or dings on an automobile surface that have gone through the paint and primer and exposed a metal surface. Galvanized metal surfaces are even susceptible to corrosion when marred. A wax/sealant that protects that flaw on the painted surface will prevent corrosion from starting there and spreading under the paint. We have all seen a chip on a car become an ugly corrosion spot.
Although it is true that most standard waxes used in automotive products will not hold up at temps above 200 deg. F , they can be chemically modified to not only hold up to higher tems but also provide some rather unique additional benefits such as better detergent resistance, better slip, better corrosion protection , etc. The astute chemist can accomplish this. Not cheaply mind you.... but if you want a $3.00 product then you'll get a $3.00 product.
I do agree that the products that perform best in testing are those that contain a combination of resins, waxes, and silicone materials. However, I also know that the VERY BEST products are typically those that contain some unique raw materials that can not always be purchased "off the shelf". The cleverest of formulators can achieve some pretty amazing things.
AND...... watch out for nanotechnology! It's not just a buzz word. Coatings are already being tested that provide an almost completely frictionless surface. In some cases, products will be able to be made that will no longer require lubrication. How this technology finds it's way into your automotive products is yet to be discovered...the sky's the limit!!! Sorry...getting a little excited there.....
THE CHEMIST ( yep....I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaack)</HTML>
Some of the best corrosion inhibitors in the world do not contain wax.
It appears as though the "Diamond Plus" product mentioned in the testing was formulated to bond to both painted and non painted surfaces. That is evident by the above average test results obtained on both surfaces. Not an easy task. Protecting bare metal surfaces would be beneficial when there are scratches or dings on an automobile surface that have gone through the paint and primer and exposed a metal surface. Galvanized metal surfaces are even susceptible to corrosion when marred. A wax/sealant that protects that flaw on the painted surface will prevent corrosion from starting there and spreading under the paint. We have all seen a chip on a car become an ugly corrosion spot.
Although it is true that most standard waxes used in automotive products will not hold up at temps above 200 deg. F , they can be chemically modified to not only hold up to higher tems but also provide some rather unique additional benefits such as better detergent resistance, better slip, better corrosion protection , etc. The astute chemist can accomplish this. Not cheaply mind you.... but if you want a $3.00 product then you'll get a $3.00 product.
I do agree that the products that perform best in testing are those that contain a combination of resins, waxes, and silicone materials. However, I also know that the VERY BEST products are typically those that contain some unique raw materials that can not always be purchased "off the shelf". The cleverest of formulators can achieve some pretty amazing things.
AND...... watch out for nanotechnology! It's not just a buzz word. Coatings are already being tested that provide an almost completely frictionless surface. In some cases, products will be able to be made that will no longer require lubrication. How this technology finds it's way into your automotive products is yet to be discovered...the sky's the limit!!! Sorry...getting a little excited there.....
THE CHEMIST ( yep....I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaack)</HTML>
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Re: sealant on mufflers November 22, 2004 04:07PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
<HTML>We have been working with PPG regarding the "ceramiclear" for over three years.
The one thing that has been come quite evident is the thickness of the ceramic particles, which actually "rise" to the top of the normal clearcoat in the curing process.
The term "nano" is being beat to death by car care chemical manufacturers and suppliers.
I have found that virtually none of them actually know or understand this paint system, but have just grabbed onto the "nano" buzz word and are using it to market new waxes, polishes, sealants, etc.
I won't go in depth on this new technology, for even after working with PPG, not sure I really am qualified to get too technical on it.
However, all should keep in mind that if they think a "mil" is thin, then a "micron" is going to drive them nuts when it comes to doing any polishing or compounding of this finish.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
The one thing that has been come quite evident is the thickness of the ceramic particles, which actually "rise" to the top of the normal clearcoat in the curing process.
The term "nano" is being beat to death by car care chemical manufacturers and suppliers.
I have found that virtually none of them actually know or understand this paint system, but have just grabbed onto the "nano" buzz word and are using it to market new waxes, polishes, sealants, etc.
I won't go in depth on this new technology, for even after working with PPG, not sure I really am qualified to get too technical on it.
However, all should keep in mind that if they think a "mil" is thin, then a "micron" is going to drive them nuts when it comes to doing any polishing or compounding of this finish.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
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Re: sealant on mufflers November 22, 2004 09:51PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 17 |
<HTML>Unfortunately many industries marketing departments are starting to use "NANOTECHNOLOGY" in their advertising. Many have no idea what it is or why it would be in their product. It's a shame what some companies will do just to sell a product. However, I do understand nanotechnology and rest assured it will play a huge roll in many new products in the near future (and some already in use). This technology is still in its infancy but will quickly become a household name, not because of clever marketing departments, but because of what it will lead to in the way of amazing new products in your everyday lives. The laboratories of the better developers of automotive appearance products are already testing "nano materials" in their products in an effort to see what new benefits can be garnered from them. The fun is just starting....... these are the times when it's fun to be a chemist......
The Chemist</HTML>
The Chemist</HTML>
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Re: sealant on mufflers November 23, 2004 02:08AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: sealant on mufflers November 23, 2004 03:08AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
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Re: sealant on mufflers November 23, 2004 03:13AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>Very simple to stop the "corrossion-rusting" process.
Stop two required, chemical composistions, from reaching the metal.
One is "air".
Two is "moisture".
That is and has been for years the basic chemistry of stopping the "corrossion/rusting" of ferrous metal substrates.
Which validates the "manufacturer's accepted" use of products such as "e-coat" or "anti-corrossive' waxes in the process of building vehicles.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
Stop two required, chemical composistions, from reaching the metal.
One is "air".
Two is "moisture".
That is and has been for years the basic chemistry of stopping the "corrossion/rusting" of ferrous metal substrates.
Which validates the "manufacturer's accepted" use of products such as "e-coat" or "anti-corrossive' waxes in the process of building vehicles.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: sealant on mufflers November 23, 2004 05:17AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 751 |
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Re: sealant on mufflers November 23, 2004 06:29AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: sealant on mufflers November 23, 2004 07:25PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Ketch:
In response to your posting I had to do some research as I am not a chemist by education or background.
According to those who did the test and other chemists in the detail chemical field their position is that using unpainted metal panels are the ultimate test of protection.
It is much harder to protect bare steel than it is a painted surface. The one thing that you cannot measure on bare steel that you could that you could on paint is the protection from UV. If there are chips on paint where the metal is exposed certain sealants/waxes will protect that area from further damage due to rust getting under the paint, and certain products will not. Part of the test criteria was also done over a painted surface. On the painted surface they measured gloss before and after and they measured resistence to being washed off by regular washings.
Finally, some of the best metal protection products in the world do not contain wax. Standard waxes are not what give certain sealant products their corrosion protection.
Wait for your reply.
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
In response to your posting I had to do some research as I am not a chemist by education or background.
According to those who did the test and other chemists in the detail chemical field their position is that using unpainted metal panels are the ultimate test of protection.
It is much harder to protect bare steel than it is a painted surface. The one thing that you cannot measure on bare steel that you could that you could on paint is the protection from UV. If there are chips on paint where the metal is exposed certain sealants/waxes will protect that area from further damage due to rust getting under the paint, and certain products will not. Part of the test criteria was also done over a painted surface. On the painted surface they measured gloss before and after and they measured resistence to being washed off by regular washings.
Finally, some of the best metal protection products in the world do not contain wax. Standard waxes are not what give certain sealant products their corrosion protection.
Wait for your reply.
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: sealant on mufflers November 23, 2004 08:55PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 17 |
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Re: sealant on mufflers November 23, 2004 09:01PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 17 |
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