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COMPOUNDS vs LEVELERS
Posted by Bud Abraham
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COMPOUNDS vs LEVELERS November 17, 2005 05:13PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Want to bring up the subject again to see if we get any good conversation on this, or if it is just retoric.
Is there a difference between correcting chemicals that we call compounds in the detail industry and those some chemical companies call "levelers?"
Does it make any difference which you use?
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
Is there a difference between correcting chemicals that we call compounds in the detail industry and those some chemical companies call "levelers?"
Does it make any difference which you use?
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Re: COMPOUNDS vs LEVELERS November 17, 2005 05:40PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
<HTML>For the past 15 years or so considered this.
When one "compounds", that is an "abrasive process", which removes a portion of the paint film.
Abrasion will "level" a surface.
Following the "abrasive" process, one must then proceed to a "burnishing" or "polishing" procedure, in order to remove the marring created by the "abrasive" process.
So, compounding or use of a compound is "leveling" of the paint film.
There is no real difference, just "marketing mumbo jumbo talk" used to put another product on the shelf of a detailer.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
When one "compounds", that is an "abrasive process", which removes a portion of the paint film.
Abrasion will "level" a surface.
Following the "abrasive" process, one must then proceed to a "burnishing" or "polishing" procedure, in order to remove the marring created by the "abrasive" process.
So, compounding or use of a compound is "leveling" of the paint film.
There is no real difference, just "marketing mumbo jumbo talk" used to put another product on the shelf of a detailer.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
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Re: COMPOUNDS vs LEVELERS November 17, 2005 08:19PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: COMPOUNDS vs LEVELERS November 17, 2005 08:24PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
<HTML>The "leveling" marketing of their products goes back at least 15 years or so, it's their way, would be pretty difficult to change now.
I am reserving final judgement for another week or so regarding the Expo.
My initial reaction, at this time, is that ir was a waste of my promotion budget.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
I am reserving final judgement for another week or so regarding the Expo.
My initial reaction, at this time, is that ir was a waste of my promotion budget.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
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Re: COMPOUNDS vs LEVELERS November 17, 2005 09:28PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Ron:
THanks for the reply, I suspected as much with High Temp. The only time I have ever heard the term used was in relation to their products. Unfortunately some detailers actually believed that this made their compounds different and better than yours or mine.
Yes, a little time is needed before making judgement on the leads from the expo. Unfortunately those people I contacted who came to the booth never responded and until now I have not heard from them. I guess they were just tire kickers.
Next year they may be charging double for the price of a booth. At that price I am not sure I would participate either.
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
THanks for the reply, I suspected as much with High Temp. The only time I have ever heard the term used was in relation to their products. Unfortunately some detailers actually believed that this made their compounds different and better than yours or mine.
Yes, a little time is needed before making judgement on the leads from the expo. Unfortunately those people I contacted who came to the booth never responded and until now I have not heard from them. I guess they were just tire kickers.
Next year they may be charging double for the price of a booth. At that price I am not sure I would participate either.
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: COMPOUNDS vs LEVELERS November 18, 2005 07:57AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 118 |
<HTML>I have used the various power levelers by Hi-Temp, and many other compounds or polishes. The goal is always the same, to level the painted surface around scratches, swirl marks, etc. to produce a beautiful finish. Just another way to say the same thing. Everybody has a cog on the wheel! . . .</HTML>
Detailing, An Art In Motion!
Detailing, An Art In Motion!
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Re: COMPOUNDS vs LEVELERS November 18, 2005 08:26PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 73 |
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Re: COMPOUNDS vs LEVELERS November 18, 2005 09:52PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: COMPOUNDS vs LEVELERS November 21, 2005 05:16AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 73 |
<HTML>bud i know raceglaze claims to use no silica,i dont use their stuff a lot i mostly use autogylm compounds they work the best for me.although i plan on trying some detail plus product very soon.i was wondering if your swirl remover was an actual remover or a swirl hider before i order any.</HTML>
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Re: COMPOUNDS vs LEVELERS November 21, 2005 06:24AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: COMPOUNDS vs LEVELERS November 21, 2005 06:35AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Don't know much about Race Glaze other than I think they exhibited at the carwash/detail expo a few years back only once.
They might not use silica, some chemical companies do not use it in their compounds. My chemist tells me that a good compound is a mix of both silica and aluminum oxide abrasives. The reason he does not like all aluminum oxide is that it can cake up.
Auto Glym is a British company that tried to make a big splash in the USA, but found it difficult to compete as the products were imported from the UK.
As far as I know they are no better or worse than most made by the leading USA suppliers.
As for DETAIL PLUS products we have many of the same as other companies, but there are a few that you might want to take a closer look at:
FINE FINISH PLUS - a micro-fine finishing compound made especially for clear coats.
ONE STEP PLUS - 2000 GRIT - a dual purpose product that is a combination of a light compound (2000 grit) and our paint sealant. Use it with a cutting pad and it is a light compound. Use it with a polishing pad and it is a high quality one step, correcting, polishing and protecting in one step.
SWIRL AWAY/POLISH - an excellent swirl remover and polish. You can use it after compounding with a polishing pad to remove swirls (not fill them) or as a polish. Use with a high speed buffer (1300rpm) and a finishing pad.
DIAMOND PLUS - a very high quality paint sealant that is easy on and easy off with good shine, resistence to soap and very good corrosion resistence. Good price too, $22.95 a gallon.
MINK PLUS - a mink oil leather conditioner.
ODORID - a biological odor eliminator, kills bacteria that causes odor on contact.
The rest of the DETAIL PLUS is good, but no better or worse than anyone else's all things being equal.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
They might not use silica, some chemical companies do not use it in their compounds. My chemist tells me that a good compound is a mix of both silica and aluminum oxide abrasives. The reason he does not like all aluminum oxide is that it can cake up.
Auto Glym is a British company that tried to make a big splash in the USA, but found it difficult to compete as the products were imported from the UK.
As far as I know they are no better or worse than most made by the leading USA suppliers.
As for DETAIL PLUS products we have many of the same as other companies, but there are a few that you might want to take a closer look at:
FINE FINISH PLUS - a micro-fine finishing compound made especially for clear coats.
ONE STEP PLUS - 2000 GRIT - a dual purpose product that is a combination of a light compound (2000 grit) and our paint sealant. Use it with a cutting pad and it is a light compound. Use it with a polishing pad and it is a high quality one step, correcting, polishing and protecting in one step.
SWIRL AWAY/POLISH - an excellent swirl remover and polish. You can use it after compounding with a polishing pad to remove swirls (not fill them) or as a polish. Use with a high speed buffer (1300rpm) and a finishing pad.
DIAMOND PLUS - a very high quality paint sealant that is easy on and easy off with good shine, resistence to soap and very good corrosion resistence. Good price too, $22.95 a gallon.
MINK PLUS - a mink oil leather conditioner.
ODORID - a biological odor eliminator, kills bacteria that causes odor on contact.
The rest of the DETAIL PLUS is good, but no better or worse than anyone else's all things being equal.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Re: COMPOUNDS vs LEVELERS November 21, 2005 07:59PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 73 |
<HTML>thanks for your reply bud.i think renny doyle uses raceglaze exclusively and has helped in the development of the product in recent years.im no chemist but its my understanding that companies are getting away from products with silica because of the health hazards involved with breathing it.anyway im going to orlando in january and i look forward to meeting you.</HTML>
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Re: COMPOUNDS vs LEVELERS November 21, 2005 09:28PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
<HTML>David,
There are many who use crystaline silica, which is the promoter of silicous of the lungs, IE "black lung desease.
The safe "silica" is amorphus silica which OSHA and other health study groups have deemed to be safe.
Additionally, as mentioned alumium oxide is often used, in small percentages.
Other additives may be diatamatis earth, bentonite, super floss, etc.
The modern, latest compounds contain some cerium oxide, either industrial or optical grade.
At present there are only a couple of companies producing with this abrasive.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
There are many who use crystaline silica, which is the promoter of silicous of the lungs, IE "black lung desease.
The safe "silica" is amorphus silica which OSHA and other health study groups have deemed to be safe.
Additionally, as mentioned alumium oxide is often used, in small percentages.
Other additives may be diatamatis earth, bentonite, super floss, etc.
The modern, latest compounds contain some cerium oxide, either industrial or optical grade.
At present there are only a couple of companies producing with this abrasive.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
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Re: COMPOUNDS vs LEVELERS November 21, 2005 10:19PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>As I said I do know much about Race Glaze other than that they visited the Expo once.
From my perspective there are less than 10 major detail chemicals manufacturers that are players in the industry. The others to me are just around, but they do not really service the industry as say Auto Magic, Car Brite or Pro who have a national wagon jobber distribution network.
As for the use of silica I can't say for sure what other companies are doing. I think this is great retoric started by chemical companies who want to discredit other companies by telling you their compounds don't use silica.
That is my opinion, it is not fact, please understand.
Regards
Bud ABraham</HTML>
buda
From my perspective there are less than 10 major detail chemicals manufacturers that are players in the industry. The others to me are just around, but they do not really service the industry as say Auto Magic, Car Brite or Pro who have a national wagon jobber distribution network.
As for the use of silica I can't say for sure what other companies are doing. I think this is great retoric started by chemical companies who want to discredit other companies by telling you their compounds don't use silica.
That is my opinion, it is not fact, please understand.
Regards
Bud ABraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: COMPOUNDS vs LEVELERS November 30, 2005 11:40PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Sorry for being so tardy in posting the ingredients used in our compounds, but I was traveling.
DETAIL PLUS compounds use both amorphous and crystallline silicas as well as calcined clay.
Some have diamotaceous earth.
We also have some products with aluminum oxide combined with silica, and are experimenting with cerium oxide.
It is key for a detailer to know what these elements are and how they effect the performance of a compound.
If you do not have this knowledge then you are at the mercy of your chemical supplier and the only way you can judge any chemical is how it performs for you in given situations.
That is ok, if you do not care to be more knowledgeable about the products you use.
As Ron K says you can find the knowledge you need in a library of better yet by typing the name on www.google.com and you will find volumes of information on silica, diamotaceous earth, silicones, siloxanes, polymers, etc. It is all there for the person looking to become more knowledgeable and informed.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
DETAIL PLUS compounds use both amorphous and crystallline silicas as well as calcined clay.
Some have diamotaceous earth.
We also have some products with aluminum oxide combined with silica, and are experimenting with cerium oxide.
It is key for a detailer to know what these elements are and how they effect the performance of a compound.
If you do not have this knowledge then you are at the mercy of your chemical supplier and the only way you can judge any chemical is how it performs for you in given situations.
That is ok, if you do not care to be more knowledgeable about the products you use.
As Ron K says you can find the knowledge you need in a library of better yet by typing the name on www.google.com and you will find volumes of information on silica, diamotaceous earth, silicones, siloxanes, polymers, etc. It is all there for the person looking to become more knowledgeable and informed.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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