Meg's 21 & Klasse

Since Klasse twins are boutiqe as well as newer Jeffs Werkstatt acrylic

The price of Meguiars 21 sealant is 18 $ about the same price as these so is 21 a boutique does anyone have experience with either of these to offer an opinion.

thanx kerr

kerr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since Klasse twins are boutiqe as well as newer
> Jeffs Werkstatt acrylic
>
> The price of Meguiars 21 sealant is 18 $ about the
> same price as these so is 21 a boutique does
> anyone have experience with either of these to
> offer an opinion.
>
> thanx kerr

Well when you say "Klasse twins" your talking two products a cleaner/ polish/ protectant in AIO and a sealant in SG. Megs #21 is a stand alone sealant . Compare Megs #21 to Klasse's SG . IMO #21 is a better product in the looks and durability department. No I wouldn't call Megs #21 a "boutique" product do to the fact it's available everywhere ( body shop supplies ,detailing supplies and some parts stores)

Sealants also being hard collect swirls

Gentlemen:
Meguiar's #21 Synthetic Sealant is a blend of NXT Tech Wax and #20 Polymer Sealant, according to a Meguiar's spokesman. A detailer I know uses it almost exclusively and uses Mother's California Gold Cleaner Wax when he uses a Carnauba Wax. Like many Meguiar's products, #21 has a list price that may be much higher than some distributers actually charge for it. I was once quoted $39 for a 64 ounce container. You can do a Froogle search on google if you want. Rollman, on what basis do you find that #21 outlasts Klasse ? That seems unlikely to me based on the performance of other Meguiar's products.
Kerr: What do you mean by "sealants collect swirls" ? I certainly have not found swirls in my finish after washing my vehicles, whether or not I used a sealant. Both currently have sealants on them-Awesome Gloss by AutoMagic and Zaino. Anyway, I'd expect swirls to form more easily in a softer material as it would be easier to scratch.
Doug
" Time is the wisest counsellor."

I think it was on carecareonline.com where I got sealants collect swirls.

i have used Zaino , Collonite , UPP, Klasse twins klasse seemed to collect swirls alot or maybe it was just me

When I had a Chevy Monte Carlo SS 1984 model nice car by the way used Meg's 7 and 26 worked well on it since it was single stage lacquer paint.

also tried autoint Finishing Wax

Either going to use Duragloss 105 + Aquawax

Collonite

Werkstatt acrylic similiar to Klasse except tweaked for a differnt look and performance.

regards kerr

Kerr :
Thanks. I've used #7 & #26 myself. You get a top notch shine that way but #26 is not very durable.

I'd like your opinion of the Finishing Wax. I gave my bottle to a pro to try out but he didn't like it.

If you got swirls from applying a sealant, I'll bet the fault was in the material you used to apply it ( polyester towel or stiff cheap cotton etc. ).

Curious why you did not stick with Zaino. So many people seem to think it's the best...

Doug

It's based on the fact I use it daily .

Finishing Wax last but the shine goes away pretty fast same can be said for Meg's products I have also used Meg's 21.

Zaino is a good product but a much hyped product Duragloss is alot like Zaino excepts a little diferent look much cheaper though.

Zaino gives you a flat look which I do not like Duragloss 105 polish (sealant) aquawax is like Z-8 but last 2 months 22 oz. bottle is $ 8.00

Sal zaino gets people to hype his product and gives them free products and lets them beta test stuff to be included the Z does not protect well

The clear coat is your protection is anyway all this is for show !

kerr



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2006 03:31AM by kerr.

Klasse reformulated the All-In-One product to be VOC compliant. It does not have nearly the same ability to clean the surface.

The Klasse Sealant Glaze continues to be our preferred Sealant, applied to a properly prepped (clean) surface.

kerr: Ever see an oxidized clearcoat? That is a result of not being protected.

Nothing beats 3x SG with a carnauba topper on a black car.

Jim

If it was easy, everybody'd be doing it!

Jimmy thanx for the info .

I have some Jeff Werkstatt Acrylic Prime which is similar to Klasse AIO
.
Maybe I need to order some of his Acrylic Jett similair to klasse KSG

Jimmy how does Klasse resist stuff and stay clean ; like does most everything come off when hosing off the car before washing.

so are you recomending Klasse or Werkstatt instead of Meg's 21.

I do not have a power tool for working with polishes or applying sealants.

thanx kerr



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2006 02:41AM by kerr.

I can't wait for Bud and Randy to ask if you guys have an MSDS on all these products (LOL).
Seriously guys, I value your opinions and hope to try #21 soon.
I meant to take issue with the idea of clearcoat being protection. Clearcoat is most of your paint and paint cannot be protection for itself. Wax helps prevent scratching during washing and drying, helps keep the paint from drying out over time, helps against bird droppings and acid rain if combined with frequent washing and more.
My experience with Duragloss has been uneven. Their Clear Coat Polish produced an inferior gloss to Meguiar's NXT but outlasted NXT. Their Swirl Mark Remover ( a wax ) tied Meguiar's Cleaner Wax ( red bottle ) for shine and outlasted it by about 2:1 . I'd like to know what you think of Duragloss Swirl Mark Remover...
Doug

The Duragloss i was referring to is their newer 105 polish ( sealant) and Aquawax spray sealant lasts 2 months by itself.

Meg's 21 loses its gloss after 2 months.

From what I understand Klasse/Werkstatt acrylic formula is similar to old floor wax.

Also intersted as to what Ron Ketchum and Bud say
This is why I came to this forum for the freely sharing of ideas and knowledge base that is on this board.

regards kerr

----------------------------------
kerr Wrote:
The price of Meguiars 21 sealant is 18 $ about the same price as these so is 21 a boutique does anyone have experience with either of these to offer an opinion.
----------------------------------

No, I would not consider Meguiar's #21 a boutique product. I use #21 on a professional basis as a polymer sealant. It is very easy to apply & remove and offers above average protection against surface contamination.

Meguiar's #21 replaced their #20, which I had been using long before I started my own detailing business back in 1986.

*

> mirrorfinishman how long does the GLOSS last for you with Meg's 21?

Meg's 20 has been updated through the years.

One thing you might try is put down M20 first providing the brightness then apply M21 provides more depth good combo.

I spoke to Ron Ketchum years ago he said do not use klasse all in One however you could use Klasse sealant glaze every month for the life of the car.

regards and thanx to all kerr

----------------------------------
kerr Wrote:

mirrorfinishman - how long does the GLOSS last for you with Meg's 21?
----------------------------------

kerr,

I really do not know how long the gloss lasts with #21.

Being in the detailing business, what I am mostly concerned with is the fact that #21 is one of Meguiar's premium products and it offers better protection against surface contamination getting through to the paint compared to some of their other waxes.

From a business point of view, it is far more important to keep the customer focused on the need to have their car detailed at least three or four times a year, rather than trying to convince them the product is going to last a long time.

*

Gentlemen-
Since this thread originally ran, I've been testing Zaino Z-2 and can see no justification for Kerr's statements about Zaino. The product, so far, seems to provide a show quality shine and solid durability, a case where you can " have your cake and eat it too ".
If my tests confirm Zaino's reputation, I intend to begin offering Zaino sealant packages at a high price. I'll leave it to the competition to use the $10 a gallon express waxes that last two weeks.
Doug

" Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities." - Albert Einstein-

You have got it right kerr. The clear coat is your protection, everything else is for show.

*

Frank said :
"I use #21 on a professional basis as a polymer sealant. It is very easy to apply & remove and offers above average protection against surface contamination. "

Frank then said in the latest post :
"The clear coat is your protection, everything else is for show."

Which is it going to be ?
Doug

Doug would you be more specific as to how you disagree with me on Zaino.

kerr

Kerr :
You wrote, "Zaino is a good product but a much hyped product Duragloss is alot like Zaino excepts a little diferent look much cheaper though.

Zaino gives you a flat look which I do not like Duragloss 105 polish (sealant) aquawax is like Z-8 but last 2 months 22 oz. bottle is $ 8.00

Sal zaino gets people to hype his product and gives them free products and lets them beta test stuff to be included the Z does not protect well

The clear coat is your protection is anyway all this is for show ! "

1) Duragloss differs from Zaino in the application process, gloss and much more.
2) Zaino did not produce any "flat look" that I can discern.
3) The Zaino is holding up fine for me so I believe it does protect well.
4) To say the zaino does not protect well and then say that the clearcoat is the real protection is a contradiction.
If you still think your earlier statements are correct, you are free to say so. I suspect that if you give the product a fresh test, you may change your mind. Not only I, but the much more respected Gina ( Concoursgarage ) think Zaino is a great product.
This is not a personal critisism of you. It was necessary to identify you for clarity's sake in my post. Hope this explains why I disagree about Zaino.
Doug



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2006 03:52PM by Doug Delmont.

To me a clearcoat just needs regular weashing top get airborne tree sap and contaminents off the paint to prevent the clear from failing.

I am not a pro detailer nor do I have a porter house cable polisher.

I have looked at autopia.org for 10 plus years as well as other various detailing sites and talking to body shop guys.

All this other stuff is for show it all depends on what you like !

Protection your the one saying zaino is bulletproof

If everyone thought that the clearcoat was the protection and the rest was just show I'd be rich buffing out clear coats, and wouldnt even need a vaccum.

Philip
Manager of detail Depmnt, Hadwin White Buick, GMC
Myrtle Beach, SC
E-mail: philipwsuggs@hotmail.com

The issue of clearcoats needing wax or not was covered in an old thread by Martin Hernandez.

My comments in this thread do not need repeating.

Zaino, Diamond Plus and Meguiars #21 have all received praise and therefore deserve consideration.

If the clearcoat protects the paint, why buy a car cover ?
Doug

Kerr-
No one is citiquing your expertise here. I simply differ with some of your statements as does Philip. It is crucial to the success of the forum that we keep the content as accurate as possible. As they say at the ROAD KILL CAFE, " I don't have to tell you what the steaks are ".
Doug

P.S. I own a Porter Cable DA polisher and yet I still get challenged here about my expertise. ( LOL)