Scratch Removal With A PC 7424 DA Polisher

I devised a test to see how well the DA polisher works on minor scratches.
Bud has repeatedly said that this tool is good for speading wax but not for much else. Others have disputed that. Who's right ?

I wet-sanded a clear-coated Dodge Neon hood with 1000 grit 3M paper. I then tried to compound out the sanding marks with several Meguiar's compounds including #3 and #82 Diamond Cut. The DA with a Meguiar's yellow polishing pad was unable to remove the sanding marks. I conclude that Bud was right that for any sustantial scratch, you need a rotary buffer.
So does that settle it ? Not entirely.
The DA is a polisher and it works for fine polishing. After polishing with a rotary, you can apply the same polish with a DA to assure no swirl marks. You can use the DA to polish near-perfect paint in preparation for waxing or to apply one-step waxes. The DA can apply wax quickly and work it into the surface for longer life. Fitted with a cotton or micro bonnet ( or placed on a folded towel ), it can speed the wiping of newly applied wax.
Bud gets this one ! The DA is not for scratches.
Doug

Should have used the maroon pad [compound] 1st strat@ speed 3 and work the product the highest speed while applying about 20# of pressure.

New Again :
I felt what I did was a fair test and that I should have seen some results.
You may be right that your procedure would actually reduce scratches. I may get around to trying it. Thanks for the suggestion.

I'm still big on rotary buffing if it is done right. I think the show car guys sometimes fear the rotary more than they should. Meguiar's specifies a rotary for use with their compounds.

Doug

If you just think about it, it's easy to see why the PC dosent work for scratches. Scratches are removed by the rotary because of the heat generated by the pad spinning in the same buffing line repeatedly. This in effect melts the clear coat and levels it or smooths it out if you will, we all know that right? Well if thats the case then it just stands to reason that the pc isn't effective because it's an orbital. That means the pad never stays in the same spot long enough to generate enough heat to level the clear. If you push hard and bear down on the PC it seems like your gonna burn straight thru any second because of how fast this machine runs. But if you were to see it in super slow motion you would see that the pad never stays in the same spot. Thus the name "Orbital". So if it dosent stay in the same spot it cant generate enough heat to level the scratches.Now having said that, I've had my PC for years and I use it almost daily to lay down wax or sealant. For this task the PC is the greatest tool in the world. Because we wax or seal every car we do, my arms and shoulders love my PC.

Philip
Manager of detail Depmnt, Hadwin White Buick, GMC
Myrtle Beach, SC
E-mail: philipwsuggs@hotmail.com

To make a corection on my post I do NOT use a porter cable I use a DeWalt 443 which has more bite and do REMOVE scrathes.

Hey-Whoa-Wait-Time Out !
There is an old thread dealing with this issue of using heat to remove scratches versus using abrasives to remove paint down to the level of the scratch. Use the search feature to find it. The thread was called " Chemical Buffing " and appeared 11/2005. Dan Loves Tea, Ketch, Bud, and others participated . Philip : please read the thread and comment. Incidentally, the thread was started by ( pregnant pause to heighten suspense ) New Again .
Doug



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2007 02:14AM by Doug Delmont.

I was commenting on a article on Dan loves tea site. I NEVER heard of chemical buffing before and it was some good reading.

New Again :
In the Corvette DVD, Mike Phillips points out that if you apply real pressure to a PC DA polisher, the machine will stop.

Phillips also says not to use the maroon foam pad on the PC because it may scour the paint. He recommends using that pad only as a holder for micro bonnets.

The Corvette DVD purports to show the PC removing cobweb scratches with #80 topped with NXT. These products contain fillers. A real test would involve de-waxing the paint to see how many scratches were only hidden and how many were removed by paint leveling.

Doug

I DO NOT USE PC 7424 I USE A DEWALT 443 Give it up your about to look like an A$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ FYI mike does not work for meguiars ANY more and M80 do not have fillers in it I'm done.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2007 04:56AM by NEW AGAIN.

New Again-
Thanks for the correction about #80. I had read elsewhere that it contained fillers and believed it.
I realize you use a Dewalt but I am still exploring the abilities of the PC.
Was not implying that the Corvette DVD applies to your machine.
All Im concerned with here is whether the PC can or cannot remove serious scratches. So far it looks as if Bud was right.
I don't see why it matters who Mike Phillips works for in this case.
This is a little scientific inquiry-nothing to get upset over.
Doug

Mike is back working for Meguiars again. #80 does have fillers in it.

Larry-
You're not going to believe this but..
I phoned Meguiar's and their representative told me #80 has no fillers. He says it contains polishing oils, which do not fill in scratches.
He also says the polishing oils should not interfere with any company's wax sticking to the paint.
I visited www.meguiars.com and viewed the three videos on testing waxes etc. by Barry Meguiar. He never named Zaino but he said a lot of things I thought were calculated to make Zaino look bad. Still very interesting stuff. Both he and Mike Phillips are excellent speakers.
Doug

I just though that the oils in #80 were the fillers.

Larry-
Barry Meguiar's comments were probably dircted against a large company that has made claims of being " BETTER THAN MEGUIARS " and not intended against Zaino. Wanted to clear that up. Wonder if the product he shows being tested against NXT is possibly Turtle Wax ????
Doug

Larry-
I'll bet the product Barry Meguiar is testing in video #3 against NXT is in fact Turtle Wax Ice ! The shape of the bottle and the clearness of the product are the clues. See whether you agree.
If you want to test Turtle Wax Ice, save the receipt. If it doesn't measure up, you can return the unused portion for a refund.

My past experiance with Turtle Wax has been disappointing. Professional Polymer Sealant didn't last long for me. Finish 2001 had only average gloss and durability despite some optimistic claims. Polyshell One-step didn't last as long as Blue Coral's Blue Poly. Color Back was relatively hard to buff as was Super Hard Shell. So, Barry M's test could well be valid...
Doug
My computer is making a Googling noise. Gotta go. ( LOL)

I liked Turtle Platinum. To me it worked very good , similar to NXT, Eagle Nano, and Mothers FX. There is a car museum in Volo Ill. that uses Turtle Platinum on there cars. They also give you a bucket filled with Platinum products when you buy a classic car from them.

Larry :
The July 2006 Consumer Reports test rated Turtle Wax Platinum Series Ultra Gloss T-412R liquid excellent for cleaning and gloss, very good for ease of use, good for scratching and hazing, fair for durability and compatability with plastic.

The T-413R spray Platinum rated fair for gloss and durability, excellent for ease of use, scratching and hazing, compatability with plastic but poor for cleaning.

The T-411R paste version was excellent for gloss and ease of use, good for durability and cleaning, fair for scratching and hazing and poor for compatability with plastic.

Surprisingly, the T-6 Carnauba came in second for liquid waxes, excellent in all but ease of use, in which it rated good. The Platinum liquid came in 10th overall but both rated " very good " overall.

Guru Reports didn't test Platinum. The three Turtle Wax products they tested in the category of low-priced carnauba waxes got overall ratings of C+ . One got a C+ in Moderately Priced Carnauba Waxes.
Doug

I just gave my opinion.There is a Turtle Wax car wash about 2 miles away. They also wax cars. They do not use T-6, they do not use Ice. They use Platinum liquid.

Larry-
I was simply filling you in on what the tests found and not challenging your opinion. I haven't tried the product myself. Just thought you would want the test results.
Platinum may very well produce a first-rate shine. Many carnauba waxes do. Generally though, carnauba waxes are limited in durability. That may be part of the reason Turtle Wax invented ICE, a synthetic.
I think it is a bad move on the company's part to market ICE as a one-step product. I always find enough road film to warrant a mild polishing before applying a pure wax.
They also have an "ICE Clay in a Bottle product now to prepare the finish. I'm skeptical that a liquid mixture can do the job of clay. This stuff claims to get rid of swirls also, BTW. You can see it on their site or at Walmart. I'll admit I'm tempted to try it...
I should mention that I have gotten satisfactory results from some Turtle Wax products, other than waxes, including : a green all purpose cleaner they marketed as a "detailer spray ", Chrome Polish and two Bug and Tar Removers. Their Formula 2001 protectant lasted but did not produce the natural shine I like.
How much does the Turtle Wax car wash charge to wax a car ? Does the Platinum carnauba wax survive the automatic wash chemicals ?
Doug

[forums.roadfly.com]

Larry-
The above link gives some tips on Zaino. It was written before AIO and CS hit the market. Good reading and ties in with what I said about ICE as a one-step product.
Doug

Doug, Although I havent used it, everything I have read pro or con, and reading between the lines points to the fact that Zaino is the best. Now other products may be almost as good, some may even look better but nothing last as long.Other long lasting products but not as long as Zaino are Klasse, Collinite, and Duraglass 105. Of course everybody has there own opinion.

Larry-
We live and learn. Heck, until I read Ketch's posts, I thought the " Big Three " were named Manny, Moe and Jack. I thought if I shopped at Pep Boys, I was doing business with the Big Three. Oh well ! ( in good fun only )

I'm still wondering why a dressing that washes off of your trim in the rain will never wash off of my hands... ( LOL)

Recently I did figure out that all of the guys who answered me " yes " to using a rotary years ago were actually using an orbital and didn't know the difference. They had " delusions of adequacy "...
Doug



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2007 03:37AM by Doug Delmont.

Thanks, interesting reading.

I learned on a rotary.

Larry A Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks, interesting reading.
Delete post, I just answered a question that wasent asked