Maybe I should try another language to make my point?

Let me say that clearly no one here can read english that is for sure. Bobm
you make this statementlease dont turn this into a paint sealant vs wax thread. Dude, we get it already, I think we all agree that sealant is better than wax. Can we please read something other than sealant vs wax? Im sure glad this post has not turned into sealant vs wax. I use both wax or sealant, just depends on what the customer wants. Oh crap, now Im talking about sealant vs wax! Damn you all! ;-)

Bob do you realize that a wax and a sealant are really the SAME thing.Did you bother to read TOWGT's article closely.When you say a sealant is better than a wax in what respect do you mean? It can take a little more heat than others, or it is more detergent resistance.I think you confuse durability with protection.
Did you bother to read TOWGT'S statement:While it’s true many of the chemicals used in the formulation of car care products are THE SAME (or at least very similar

Then you make this statement: I use both wax or sealant, just depends on what the customer wants. Oh crap, now Im talking about sealant vs wax! Damn you all! ;-)
If you do not know the difference, then how can your customer make the decision?
Dude, you truly do not get it. You like everyone in this business equate durability as protection which it is clearly not. You think your paint sealant that you use is the same as AT-5, and if you bothered to try it you would clearly
see the difference.


Once again Bud shows up to dazzle us with his experience and knowledge.First, I am not attacking Ron and Larry, but I am pointing out certain things they say.
Why does Bud always stir the pot. I think people can speak without him jumping in for them to make his points .I agree that everything Ron and Larry say is factual on most products used today.


Bud, you have done nothing but attack me from the start with zero facts to back it up.You make statements about AT-5 based on zero testing or knowledge what is in it. I show you competent testing and you ignore it.

Bud you ask me to come on your forum and I get banned which I knew would happen.
On your forum they say no advertising, but you constantly come on this forum and
push your products constantly.How much free advertising have you got over the years. Maybe you should be banned.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2011 12:43PM by billd55.

Bill

I am not attacking you, I simply disagree with what you say and have to point out why what you say is wrong in my opinion.

You are like a religious fanatic, no matter what logic people present, you simply continue to preach the same gospel which people with more experience than you have shown is wrong.

In any case it is not about you the person but about what you say, that's all.

I would love to have a drink with you and meet personally one day,but no discussions of AT-5 or acrylic sealants

Regards
Bud Abraham

Bill

I am not attacking you, I simply disagree with what you say and have to point out why what you say is wrong in my opinion.

You are like a religious fanatic, no matter what logic people present, you simply continue to preach the same gospel which people with more experience than you have shown is wrong.

In any case it is not about you the person but about what you say, that's all.

I would love to have a drink with you and meet personally one day,but no discussions of AT-5 or acrylic sealants

And I doubt if Dan Ekenberg banned you from Mobileworks, now called Auto Detailing Network

Regards
Bud Abraham

Bill

I am not attacking you, I simply disagree with what you say and have to point out why what you say is wrong in my opinion.

You are like a religious fanatic, no matter what logic people present, you simply continue to preach the same gospel which people with more experience than you have shown is wrong.

In any case it is not about you the person but about what you say, that's all.

I would love to have a drink with you and meet personally one day,but no discussions of AT-5 or acrylic sealants

And I doubt if Dan Ekenberg banned you from Mobileworks, now called Auto Detailing Network

Regards
Bud Abraham

Bud
You disagree, but you only have your opinions.I have opinions to. What logic
are you presenting here. You keep saying this over and over:you simply continue to preach the same gospel which people with more experience than you have shown is wrong.

How do these people have more experience than I do? I have used AT-5 since 1993.
Applied it on everything from 2-737's jets , hundreds of boats, cars,trucks ,and
minivans.I show tests from competent people, but you ignore them.

I am really sorry your ego and many others will not allow you to see the truth.
I realize you have a vested interest in these products, but I do not.I have a passion for this business, not to make money from it.


You are the religious fanatic.Why do you have to reply to all my posts, and find
experts to prove me wrong? I am just making simple points from my years of experience.You say you are not attacking me that is just false in my opinion.

By the way, I was banned from mobileworks.

Bill, I have been able to read since the 11th grade! You spend weeks here explaining to us uneducated hacks that sealant is superior to sex and that wax is the work of the devil. Now you tell me that they are the same thing! Then you say your sealant is better! Well make up your mind man! Im in business to make money, this is how I purchase groceries to feed my family. Bill, I did read TOWGT's article, or tried to but about half way through my oreo got soggy and fell in my milk, that diverted my attention and made me angry. Bill, you say that you have a passion for this business, not to make money from it. How bout this then, you send me a sample of your sealant. If it performs as you say, I will get on board. I will even post my allegience here in all capital letters! This shouldnt be a problem for you since your not interested in making money.

Why doesent someone pick up some AT-5 and see what Bill is talking about . But not me.Im not a good enough expert.

Bob

Try and understand what I am saying here.Of course I want to make money, but I feel the business is all about that.When I posted the Mercedes post from another forum I was trying to show detailers here that dealerships are screwing themselves by hiring these hacks to detail their cars.Why, sure they will always have their trade in business, but their retail business will suffer because of it.Do you think this person would bring this car back to the dealership for another detail after what happened. I do not think so.

As I have said many times I do not work for GEM, and I am not getting paid to post for AT-5.I am just a long standing customer who believes that AT-5 will improve your business.I have spent a lot of time writing these posts, showed you
were to buy the product for a price that is far less expensive than other such
products on the market, and now you want me to send you a sample to.

First, it is your choice to get on board.I am showing my passion by taking the
abuse by trying to show others a different way that no else is talking about
anywhere.

If you are all about producing a shiny car for a dealership to make money, then you are clearly missing the other side of the coin.What do I mean by this? Well
as larry said in his article:They are equally concerned with; "ease of application, resistance to abrasion, atmospheric contamination and weathering".
Which means they also want protection along with shine!

Let me make this clear. There is little to no difference between the wax and sealant that you offer in respect to protection.You live in a rural area.
My guess is that most vehicles are not cleaned or detailed often.Well, AT-5
is perfect for that.It will take about six months and your customers will be convinced that to maintain their paint AT-5 is worth the money.


Bob you and others act as if you are doing me a favor by allowing me to send you
a sample on my dime.Believe me if you do not purchase AT-5 it will not effect
my life one bit. I would suggest that you call Rich at Gem (1-800-6-DETAIL)yourself, and ask him for a sample.I will be more than happy to help on any questions you have on how to apply it.


As Gina asked:Why are so many Detailing Businesses Failing or having difficulty?
This is your business.I am showing you a way to improve it, but I am not going
to do it for you.That is your job.

Ok Bill, you got me on that one, I will call and get a sample. I do have an open mind and Im willing to try anything once. Well, almost anything, I draw the line at Rocky Mountain Oysters! But I will give at-5 a shot, Ive been interested in finding a new sealer anyway.

Bob
You will not be sorry,and when you get it send me a private email. I can give you some advice on how to apply it.

I will do that Bill

Bill, I did call today for a sample of at-5. Unfortunately I was unable to purchase the product as I was left with more questions than answeres. Rich was polite to be sure, however it seemed he did not have the time or patience to answer my questions. He stated that I would need a 'true orbital' polisher to apply and remove it. I already own a dw849 rotory and a not so great ramdom orbital polisher ( yes its the cheaper plastic kind). As I understood, neither of these machines was capable of applying or removing the product. Instead he sent me to check out the website. What I found there are basically the same machines I already own. Would I need to purchase a special polisher from GEM to use this product?

A true paint sealant can be applied by hand, by orbital, dual-action tool.

According to Rich it could be, but he said it would be extremely difficult to apply and remove it without a 'true orbital polisher'. I still do not know what that is. When I asked if this was another term for a Flex type polisher wich uses a gear drive to force the pad to rotate as it spins he said no, it is a 'true orbital' Im a bit confused.

GEM sells a 16lb orbital tool which is why he says that. But the AT-5 is a paint sealant which is similar to most sealants and their is nothing special about a paint sealant that requires it to be applied with any tool.

Ask what a "true orbital" action does that is not achieved by hand or by a dual action tool such as a Flex or a CYCLO?

Regards

GEM sells a 16lb orbital tool which is why he says that. But the AT-5 is a paint sealant which is similar to most sealants and their is nothing special about a paint sealant that requires it to be applied with any tool.

Ask what a "true orbital" action does that is not achieved by hand or by a dual action tool such as a Flex or a CYCLO?

Regards

Bud, I did ask that same question. He said it was necessary to properly work the sealant into the surface and would be very difficult to remove without this machine.

With all due respect, if you believe that I have a bridge in Brooklyn, New York that you can purchase as a very good price.

Bud A

Bob

Trust me you do not need an orbital to apply AT-5. I prefer applying it by hand.
I bought the Gem polisher many years ago, but is too bulky and heavy in IMO.

From my experience, if the surface is clean it can be applied by hand. The trick is to do small sections with a cotton applicator pad ,and wipe it off right away when wet with a cotton or micro fiber towel. It dries very fast, and it is hard to remove when dry. I know your next question? This is not a problem if it does.Just reapply it and and wipe off faster before it dries. Normally, the drying time is 5 to 10 minutes.

Rich is a great guy, but he thinks the Gem polisher is needed. I do not. You could use your orbital polisher, but you will have to apply by hand to certain tight areas.

Here is something to consider about AT-5. You can apply it to aluminum, glass(
would not on the windshield),chrome,and smooth plastic.


Gem is a small company, but they are honest and deliver the product whenever
I need it at a fair price.I think you should try the product, and apply it by hand .I know this product very well, and a polisher is not needed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2011 03:08PM by billd55.

Thought I might just jump into this conversation. Whether AT5 is as good as Bill says is a question of opinion, it would seem to me. Try it, if you like it, fine, if you don't that's how it is.

Bill is right can't criticize if you don't try it.

Too many here offer lots of critical remarks but don ot try the stuff. How can you say it is no good?

But I will ask how Bill can say that GEM is honest company when they are saying "you must use GEM orbital to apply and remove."

We all know that is plain BS, you can apply any sealant by hand as Bill says.

That is not honesty that is trying to sell a buffing tool that is not needed, and who wants a 16 lb floor polisher.

The Gem polisher is used for other things. It is used for granite counter top
restoration.It is used with sandpaper to remove scratches.

Is Steve Farrell dishonest for selling the BuffPro.He might tell me that to
remove swirl marks correctly his polisher is required. I would not think he is dishonest if I felt it was not needed.


First, I cannot speak for what rich told bob. The Gem polisher is a well built polisher, and it does work well for what it does. Although, I have found a better
way from my years of experience applying the product.

All I can say is I have been buying products from them since 1993, and I have never had a problem with their service, or quality of their products.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2011 11:16AM by billd55.

Haven't seen or be around one of those old heavy suckers in years.

Has the GEM ever go UL approval, know for years they couldn't pass the criteria testing.

Not a bad old unit, if you use one regularly, no need to lift weights.

Ron
Not sure about being UL approved, but you are correct they are heavy.

They are good units, however, due to my posistion in the industry, (at the time, before retiring, training, writting processes,etc) never wished to endorse any product or machine that could possibily create a some concern in it's use by those who would use them.