I am sorry to say I am leaving the forum. Bud Abrahams constant bickering and nonsense has drove another member away...,
I remember when I first started on this forum, there was a lot more traffic and LOTS more good advise, now it has turned into Bud's sales forum, Bud's "know it all even though he has not tried it" forum.
I see no reason to stay on this board and constantly have Bud "nipping at the heels" type posts.
It was nice meeting a LOT of good folks here and I hate to have one bad apple spoil the bunch..., however, it is time for a break from the nonsense...
Everyone..., good luck and take care!!!

You know Wayne sorry to hear that you can't over look such a small thing. I post at another BB and there are always people that do not get along. Just over look them and enjoy posting to threads that you have interest in.

Wow, what has happened? I agree with David. Let's all realize that we are human and we have our flaws. Come on you can say what you want about Bud, but he does have some good ideas just like you do. I have learned a lot from this bb and I would hate to see anyone leave even if they talked about us part timers that are trying to get our wax dry. Hell, I think we need more detailers here just to get those great ideas flowing. Stay Wayne and tell a friend.

YA WHane you cant bail out ! i like your posts dont worry about bud hes harmless !!!! dude your advice is good and its real and your a detailer not a salesmen this board needs your advice & if we drop the bud thing we`ll all be alot better off o hell we`ll put bud on ebay w/ no reserve! that will fix it ! ya dude you should stay around ! OH YA IF YOU GO TO A NEW B.B. EMAIL AND LET ME KNOW WHERE





JAMESNASH ULTIMATEFINISHDETAIL PHX AZ

YA WHane you cant bail out ! i like your posts dont worry about bud hes harmless !!!! dude your advice is good and its real and your a detailer not a salesmen this board needs your advice & if we drop the bud thing we`ll all be alot better off o hell we`ll put bud on ebay w/ no reserve! that will fix it ! ya dude you should stay around ! OH YA IF YOU GO TO A NEW B.B. EMAIL AND LET ME KNOW WHERE





JAMESNASH ULTIMATEFINISHDETAIL PHX AZ

Wayne man,

I think people get into this activity for different reasons. I am a hobbyist and detail because I love cars and like to make them shine. I found this BB and realized that I could treat my cars better with sound detailing principals. The contributors of this BB helped me develop my techniques and product knowledge. I am not in the business so I am not concerned about the cost of products. I don't want to get ripped off but I like to experiment with "the boutique" products (this is one of my indulgences)

I like your posts because you talk about the stuff I want to here about. You have real life experience with the products I want to use. Your ideas represent the new school of detailers: Back yard detailers (not necessarily in the business) who love to experiment with new products in search of the perfect shine.

Bud is kind of old school and caters to people wanting to break into the detailing business. His presence provides a good balance to this board and I have learned alot from his posts.

If you don't like some of his posts, just ignore them.

Keep posting and keep the ideas fresh.

Wayne

You can't leave me now . I just found one of the best forums , that does not look down at a green-horn , or minding that I'm a girl . But if you have to go E-mail me so I know where you went .
Thank you for the good info.You will be missed.

Thanks for the kind words, my friends

However, I think it is time either the salesman or myself goes out..., so I am walking away and believe it must be this way in order to keep peace on the forum. If I stay, Bud only seems to "attack" my suggestions or products I recommend using, (even though Bud never used any of those I had mentioned..., another Miss Cleo???)

OK, I can be found at:

[bimmer.roadfly.org]

The moderator is Steve Litcher, author of "THE WAX TEST".
He is a no B.S. type guy, reports the TRUTH about products that he and others have REALLY tested, as compared to some that "blast" products they have NEVER tried..., and even admit it!

There is one product that only lasted a week. (can you guess which product it was?)

The forum is filled with lots of pro detailers, product manufacturers, product "testers", long time enthusiests, myself, etc, etc.

Come join in on the fun, learn what shines best, easy to remove, lasts the longest, removes swirls, how to save money on products, which products are the most abrasive, least abrasive, etc, etc.

My friends at this forum can email me at:
waynejitsu@hotmail.com

Thank you for your support and great discussions while I was here, but it is time, unfortunately, to have to "move on" and let the problems run their course, as I do not want to waste time in heated discussions about the same subjects time and time again with the same preson..., time and time again.

Hope to hear from you soon!!!

Wayne, dont leave over that crap. I enjoyed your comments and knoledge. There will always be some jackass wherever you go.Bud has his opinion about products and is more vocal than most. Please reconsider and ingnore the ignorant people and there jibberish. Take care

Wayne:

If I disagree with you that is my right. Because I disagree with you does not mean I am personally attacking you. My disagreement is not about you, it is about what you have said. You need not take anything I say personally, it is simply that I disagree.

You disagree with me but I do not take it personally.

What we are dealing with is fact as we see it. As a supplier to the detail industry I personally test every product that we offer because I want to know that they work whether it is a tool; equipment or chemical. Like you, I only base my opinions on hands-on experience. That is a problem we have with our engineers. They are not in the field and on paper something seems to work but out in the field it does not and we argue.

My comments are not based on conjecture or opinion they are based on fact as I see it. I guess you could call that opinion, but I try to obtain as much knowledge as I can about how chemical products are formulated, for example, before I comment on chemicals.

So again, do not take my disagreements with what you say personally they are simply disagreements with the content of what you say. They are not intended to make you look bad but simply to offer another opinion that the participants can judge on their own. It has nothing to do with you personally.

As for my comments about "boutique" products you mentioned, I have these products under test right now so I will be able to give you factual evidence of what is in the products.

The comments I made earlier did not "blast or criticize the product" they were simply general comments that were made after reading their website descriptions of the products and combining that with my 25 years in the business to conclude these products were not much different than what is already on the market at lower prices.

With that explanation I will conclude with the comment that when I disagree with what you say, that is all it is, disagreeing with what you say and not about you. If you take it personally that is your problem. But I feel that with my 25 years experience in this industry I have earned the right to make comments about what other people say, especially if I find that what they say is contrary to what I have learned. I do not mean to say that what I say is gospel; right; or the only thing to be listened to, it is simply my opinion based on the information that I have at the time.

If you can substantiate what I have said then great, show me where I am wrong. But please do not resort to personal attacks on me when I was not personally attacking you.

HOpe that puts this to rest.

Regards
Bud Abraham



buda

Is there anyway we could filter the posts on the board, so Wayne wouldn't have to see Bud's posts, Bud wouldn't see Wayne's and I could ignore them both? Just a thought.

Although, I've seen some great information in both their posts, I think they've both completely destroyed their own credibility by their bickering. Their top priority is to prove they are right and that the other is wrong, not to help us.

So, I guess I'll just not click on any post with by Bud or Wayne and suggest that they do the same.

PS. Great thread on advertising your business, everyone. That's what we need more of here.



Hill Valley Mobile Auto Detailing
www.hillvalley.ca
"I mean I'm just STARTING the second coat of wax, Mr. McFly"

wayne, don't be such a sissy! have you ever had a customer tell you that he or she didn't agree with something you said or did? to be able to debate what is right or wrong, you have to know both sides. what would your response be if you had a customer like bud bring a car to you and then state "hey wayne, i hear that your super duper wax is not as good as brand b". i respect your decision as it is a personal one. i think you let some of the content bother you more than it should. if you guys want to call each other names, you can always do it via e-mail. like i was always told "you don't have to like it, you just have to do it!" don't let a little tension ruin your day!! it seems to me that every opinion matters on this forum regardless of experience or training.