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Detail problems
Posted by Anne Springer
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Detail problems June 15, 2004 03:49AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>I was working on my friend's constant detailing nightmare but lovable car, and I need some advice.
There are spots on the car that look exactly like water spots, only nothing will remove them! I've tried washing (and of course drying), claying, using some paint cleaner (Meguiar's step 1), waxing... My guess is its either acid rain or perhaps even tree sap...
What is the best way to remove the spots?
BTW I've decided to apply for a detailing job with a Lexus dealership tomorrow, haven't been scared off yet... :-)
Thanks guys for your help!
Anne</HTML>
There are spots on the car that look exactly like water spots, only nothing will remove them! I've tried washing (and of course drying), claying, using some paint cleaner (Meguiar's step 1), waxing... My guess is its either acid rain or perhaps even tree sap...
What is the best way to remove the spots?
BTW I've decided to apply for a detailing job with a Lexus dealership tomorrow, haven't been scared off yet... :-)
Thanks guys for your help!
Anne</HTML>
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Re: Detail problems June 15, 2004 04:02AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 466 |
<HTML>Hi Anne,
More likely than not those are hard water spots that have etched into the paint and short of wetsanding or a re-paint they are most likely there to stay.
In short the top coat has been damaged beyond repair.
Anne, glad to see you are back and seeking to continue in your detailing career.
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
More likely than not those are hard water spots that have etched into the paint and short of wetsanding or a re-paint they are most likely there to stay.
In short the top coat has been damaged beyond repair.
Anne, glad to see you are back and seeking to continue in your detailing career.
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
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Re: Detail problems June 15, 2004 06:06AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Anne:
Don't give up hope just yet? What year is the car? Has it ever been painted? Is it a clear coat or a single stage paint?
When you say you used Meguiar's Step ! can you tell me what that is. I am not at all familiar with their products. How did you use it? Did you use a high speed buffer with a cutting pad?
Have you used a paint magnifier to see if the spots are water spots or as Anthony indicated actual etching in the clear or paint?
A great deal of analysis is necessary before jumping into a correction like this. You need to be certain of what you are doing before doing anything.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
Don't give up hope just yet? What year is the car? Has it ever been painted? Is it a clear coat or a single stage paint?
When you say you used Meguiar's Step ! can you tell me what that is. I am not at all familiar with their products. How did you use it? Did you use a high speed buffer with a cutting pad?
Have you used a paint magnifier to see if the spots are water spots or as Anthony indicated actual etching in the clear or paint?
A great deal of analysis is necessary before jumping into a correction like this. You need to be certain of what you are doing before doing anything.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Re: Detail problems June 16, 2004 12:30AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 466 |
<HTML>Bud......yeah my response may have been premature as I should have asked the questions you did, especially about how she applied the Meguairs product, good call.
"IF" it is the Meguiars #1 product then it is a fairly abrasive product and if applied with a rotary and a cutting pad should have leveled the area down rather easily. I saw the Meguiars "step 1" and assumed that is what is.
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
"IF" it is the Meguiars #1 product then it is a fairly abrasive product and if applied with a rotary and a cutting pad should have leveled the area down rather easily. I saw the Meguiars "step 1" and assumed that is what is.
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
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Re: Detail problems June 16, 2004 02:32AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>Thanks for the replies! I won't get a chance to really study the car til this weekend, and I will let you know what I find out.
Meguiar's Step 1 is a light abrasive that helps with oxidation, minor swirls, watermarks and such. I applied it with an applicator and took it off with my polisher. I do have Meguiar's Fine Cut Cleaner which I plan to use once I get a rotary buffer...
I don't think the car has been repainted and the paint is thin without a clearcoat, or not much left anyways. When I applied Step 1 I got a tiny bit of green on the applicator, and from my experience if you get more than that, you don't have a clearcoat. The car also has a bunch of chips from gravel/rocks hitting it so I suggested to my friend to get a new paint job, or at least the hood.
For my conclusion, I will wait and do a deep inspection before I do anything else, and try to take some pictures to show you guys.
Anne</HTML>
Meguiar's Step 1 is a light abrasive that helps with oxidation, minor swirls, watermarks and such. I applied it with an applicator and took it off with my polisher. I do have Meguiar's Fine Cut Cleaner which I plan to use once I get a rotary buffer...
I don't think the car has been repainted and the paint is thin without a clearcoat, or not much left anyways. When I applied Step 1 I got a tiny bit of green on the applicator, and from my experience if you get more than that, you don't have a clearcoat. The car also has a bunch of chips from gravel/rocks hitting it so I suggested to my friend to get a new paint job, or at least the hood.
For my conclusion, I will wait and do a deep inspection before I do anything else, and try to take some pictures to show you guys.
Anne</HTML>
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Re: Detail problems June 16, 2004 02:42AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>Anne, I have read your post and still do not know the brand or model, let alone the year when it was assembled.
And---what year, what color, are you sure it has a "clearcoat"?
All these things may affect what you are dealing with.
Additionally, does this vehicle set in a parking lot of an industry which has high particulate emissions, a city that is known to have a lot of heavy industry, high daily temperatures, has the owner washed it at least every week?
Perhaps it has spent most of it's time in a less harsh enviorment?
If the vehicle was washed regularly, did they use a self service or a full service wash, or perhaps do it themselves?
Self washing of the vehicle, what did they use for a wash solution?
Takes a lot of detective work to diagnois just what one is dealing with.
Not throwing down on you, just bringing to light, some things that will make a "big" difference in what it may take to correct if possible.
There are so many different things that may affect the finish and what the technican may chose to use in their way of correction.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
And---what year, what color, are you sure it has a "clearcoat"?
All these things may affect what you are dealing with.
Additionally, does this vehicle set in a parking lot of an industry which has high particulate emissions, a city that is known to have a lot of heavy industry, high daily temperatures, has the owner washed it at least every week?
Perhaps it has spent most of it's time in a less harsh enviorment?
If the vehicle was washed regularly, did they use a self service or a full service wash, or perhaps do it themselves?
Self washing of the vehicle, what did they use for a wash solution?
Takes a lot of detective work to diagnois just what one is dealing with.
Not throwing down on you, just bringing to light, some things that will make a "big" difference in what it may take to correct if possible.
There are so many different things that may affect the finish and what the technican may chose to use in their way of correction.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: Detail problems June 16, 2004 04:25PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>Sorry, I totally forgot to talk about the car in my last posting.
Its a 1994 Subaru SVX, an green emerald with flecks. Problem is, with the stains you cannot see the flecks, otherwise this car should be glowing! I believe it has a clearcoat, I don't know how else to find this out... I am going by the paint cleaner/wax test because my old Topaz didn't have a clearcoat and I got color on my towel, and the SVX I hardly do (just like my Celica, its oxidized paint whenver there's color).
Unfortunately my friend just bought the car at a dealership so we don't know what it endured in its former life. If it was in the Cities, then it may have a bit of industrial fallout and harsh water conditions. If it was North, I heard that area is bad about acid rain. We also have a lot of pine trees around... As far as how the former owner washed it, I am guessing she didn't often and probably was all done with the wonderful automatic washes. She really beat the poor car up, that's for sure!
While I was washing my own car this morning, I decided my first plan of action is to take a rotary and fine cut cleaner to it and see if that helps. If it doesn't, I will go from there, although I still think its best for a repaint.
Anne</HTML>
Its a 1994 Subaru SVX, an green emerald with flecks. Problem is, with the stains you cannot see the flecks, otherwise this car should be glowing! I believe it has a clearcoat, I don't know how else to find this out... I am going by the paint cleaner/wax test because my old Topaz didn't have a clearcoat and I got color on my towel, and the SVX I hardly do (just like my Celica, its oxidized paint whenver there's color).
Unfortunately my friend just bought the car at a dealership so we don't know what it endured in its former life. If it was in the Cities, then it may have a bit of industrial fallout and harsh water conditions. If it was North, I heard that area is bad about acid rain. We also have a lot of pine trees around... As far as how the former owner washed it, I am guessing she didn't often and probably was all done with the wonderful automatic washes. She really beat the poor car up, that's for sure!
While I was washing my own car this morning, I decided my first plan of action is to take a rotary and fine cut cleaner to it and see if that helps. If it doesn't, I will go from there, although I still think its best for a repaint.
Anne</HTML>
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Re: Detail problems June 17, 2004 02:50AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>That vehicle's paint system in PPG, the same material as Mazda, even the same colors, just different names.
It appears from your diagnois of the vehicle, after all it is 10 years old and based upon your observation, in very, very bad condition.
That does not mean that you can not improve the appearance, just that it will most likely, never be "new" again.
Here is a tip to discover just how poor of shape the clear is in.
After you wash the vehicle, obtain a cellophane outter wrapper from a pack of cigarettes.
Place your the three middle fingers of one hand inside the wrapper, and gently rub your fingers over the surface.
You should feel a lot of "bumps" or "raises" in the clears surface.
This is the result of the years of enviormental contaminates, acids, corossives, etc, entering the porosity of the clear (see the highly magnified modern paint system at www.autoint.com under the Tech Tips Section).
Claying will "appear" to solve this "bumpiness", or "swelling", but in reality, ithe clay can not remove the very corossive components which created the condition.
Clay will "smooth" out the top of the uneveness, but not remove the acids, etc that created them in the first place.
As with any corossive components, once the surface which they have penetrated are exposed to the two "reactives" present regularly, "moisture and heat", the condition will quickly return.
These damaging chemical components must be removed or any other actions taken in attempting to correct the paint surface are little more than applying make-up to the surface.
Look at it this way, "if one has cancer, the cancer must be either removed or "killed" off".
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
It appears from your diagnois of the vehicle, after all it is 10 years old and based upon your observation, in very, very bad condition.
That does not mean that you can not improve the appearance, just that it will most likely, never be "new" again.
Here is a tip to discover just how poor of shape the clear is in.
After you wash the vehicle, obtain a cellophane outter wrapper from a pack of cigarettes.
Place your the three middle fingers of one hand inside the wrapper, and gently rub your fingers over the surface.
You should feel a lot of "bumps" or "raises" in the clears surface.
This is the result of the years of enviormental contaminates, acids, corossives, etc, entering the porosity of the clear (see the highly magnified modern paint system at www.autoint.com under the Tech Tips Section).
Claying will "appear" to solve this "bumpiness", or "swelling", but in reality, ithe clay can not remove the very corossive components which created the condition.
Clay will "smooth" out the top of the uneveness, but not remove the acids, etc that created them in the first place.
As with any corossive components, once the surface which they have penetrated are exposed to the two "reactives" present regularly, "moisture and heat", the condition will quickly return.
These damaging chemical components must be removed or any other actions taken in attempting to correct the paint surface are little more than applying make-up to the surface.
Look at it this way, "if one has cancer, the cancer must be either removed or "killed" off".
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: Detail problems July 10, 2004 03:29AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>Here's a little update on the car with the nasty spots...
I took all your advice and after thinking about the problem a bit, I decided to wetsand the hood since nothing else was even touching the spots. It helped quite a bit, but there seems to be "layers" to these spots. Now with the first layer "shaved" off, the spots aren't noticeable until you are close to the car, and that's okay. My friend will be having the car repainted sometime, so all I am doing is experimenting and working on my skills.
We still don't know what the spots are from, but we think since the worst spots are in the middle sections and not on the sides that it was parked under an overhang, so more than likely water/acid spots.
I am working on remembering to take some pictures so you can see for yourself...
Anne</HTML>
I took all your advice and after thinking about the problem a bit, I decided to wetsand the hood since nothing else was even touching the spots. It helped quite a bit, but there seems to be "layers" to these spots. Now with the first layer "shaved" off, the spots aren't noticeable until you are close to the car, and that's okay. My friend will be having the car repainted sometime, so all I am doing is experimenting and working on my skills.
We still don't know what the spots are from, but we think since the worst spots are in the middle sections and not on the sides that it was parked under an overhang, so more than likely water/acid spots.
I am working on remembering to take some pictures so you can see for yourself...
Anne</HTML>
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Magnifier July 16, 2004 03:21AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 6 |
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Re: Magnifier July 16, 2004 03:30AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 751 |
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Re: Magnifier July 16, 2004 10:47PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 6 |
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