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What does this article tell me? I am really not sure?

Posted by billd55 
What does this article tell me? I am really not sure?
March 18, 2011 12:46AM
Sacrificial Protection
sac•ri•fi•cial [:designed to be used up or destroyed]

aWhat’s the best wax or sealant? Is there a best? In my opinion- No!
While it’s true many of the chemicals used in the formulation of car care products are the same (or at least very similar) Having used a variety of different products,t various cost points, I can tell one from another and field testing shows that not all have the durability either, some simply outperform others in many categories and react differently when applied to different paint types, paint hardness, colour, or varied paint surface conditions.

Ultimately the best wax or sealant will prove to be the one that best meets its user's objectives. If a product is not working for you experiment until you find one that’s suitable for your needs.

Detailing enthusiasts consider shine as only one attribute of a protective wax or sealant. They are equally concerned with; ease of application, resistance to abrasion, atmospheric contamination and weathering. There are many reasons that will influence a choice of car care product; brand loyalty, its popularity, ease of application, aesthetics, to provide protection, and its durability.
Let’s examine a few of those reasons

Aesthetics- of a vehicles appearance is usually based upon an emotional reaction, clarity, depth of shine, gloss and a wet-look are all very subjective to say the least, the only best wax or sealant that really matters is what looks 'best' to you. In the final analysis it all come down to; 85% preparation, 5% product, 7% application methodology and the balance is in the ‘guy’ of the beholder.

Protection – a fundamental question first; what does a paint surface need to be protected from?

Damage to paint comes in a varied range of threats; acid rain, road salt, tree sap, hydrazine an extremely active acid that is found in jet fuel, industrial fallout, ultra violet radiation and other airborne contaminants are very detrimental to a vehicles paint film surface. They are all forms of environmental contamination and given the right catalyst; reactivity (heat) plus moisture, they will become acidic.

Ferrous metal particles produced from the friction of train wheels and rail tracks and brake pad material (semi-metallic, carbon resins, asbestos or ceramics formulations) rubbing against the rotor. The brake material friction as well as metal particles from the rotor or rail tracks disperses tiny particles of black dust, which forms a cohesive bond to the wheels and adheres to localised paint surfaces. Ferrous oxide micro-sized particles when they come into contact with moisture will form rust.

Bird excrement comprises; Ammonia and urine as white crystals of uric acid (pH 3.0 - 4.5) a small organic compound, which is produced by the breakdown of protein during digestion, and is excreted by reptiles and birds. Uric acid is also the end product of nitrogen catabolism in birds Ammonia is a mixture of nitrogen gas and hydrogen gas; with moisture as a catalyst it becomes Ammonium Hydroxide, which is caustic.

Bug Residue and Carcasses - the carcass is very acidic, and if left for any length of time will cause the porous clear coat to occlude (a non-transparent ‘clouded’ area) or may cause etching (a depression in the paint or glass surfaces)

Calcium - an untimely lawn sprinkler, a springtime shower, or spots that remained after washing, the minerals are white calcium/sodium deposits that are alkaline-based, especially from hard water. If left on the vehicle paint surface they act the same way as acid rain in that they will etch the paint film surface.

Contaminants - particles of dirt, grime, carbon emissions from catalytic converters, bird excrement, calcium, tar, oil, hard water deposits, calcium or any pollutant type substance that adheres to your paint surface, sometimes invisible the naked eye.

Corrosion (metal oxidation) - Salt water conducts electricity better than fresh water so in areas that use salt on the roads, this process is greatly accelerated. Corrosion (rust) destroys metal by an electro-chemical reaction with water as the catalyst (water + ozone (an oxidizer) moisture + oxygen).

Hydrazine - an extremely active acid that is found in jet fuel, vehicles that park in close proximity to airports or flight-paths are subject to this contaminant. Acid rain (sulphur dioxide plus moisture) and is caused by sulphur from impurities in fossil fuels and nitrogen from the air combining with oxygen to form sulphur dioxide and nitrogen dioxide. These diffuse into the atmosphere and react with water to form sulphuric and nitric acids which are soluble and fall with the rain. Some hydrochloric acid is also formed.

Industrial Fallout (IFO) - emissions from power generation, manufacturing plants and combustion engines emit Sulphuric acid from their exhaust stacks etc, vehicular catalytic converters emit carbon compounds that mixed with ozone (an oxidizer) and water becomes Sulphuric acid.

Oxidation - UV- A radiation is known to contribute to the chemical modification of exposed paint surfaces resulting in loss of gloss, colour change, chalking, flaking and eventually destruction of the paint film

Pollen - the yellow fines to coarse powders you see in the air is made up of small sperm cells from blooming plants and is one of the most common allergy triggers. The pollen from trees are the main concern, vehicles get hit with pollen laced trees that include: oak, western red cedar, elm, birch, ash, hickory, polar, sycamore, maple, cypress and walnut (which also leaves an oily residue). Pollen grains of pines, firs, and spruces are winged.

UV radiation - wavelengths; ultraviolet and infrared radiation, respectively has a two-fold effect; infrared (heat) UV-A and ultra violet (light) UV-B
Ultra violet radiation is a paint film surface's greatest enemy, causing more damage than any other airborne contaminant and affecting both the interior and exterior of a vehicle. The light in this spectral range (UV-cool smiley is responsible for photo degradation. Photo degradation results in discoloration, fading, embitterment, cracking, chalking and/or loss of mechanical properties. Heat is also harmful to exposed materials, the heat you feel from the sun, on the dash, etc, is the infra-red (UV-A) waves at the other end of the spectrum.
Road Salt - Although salt is inert when subjected to freezing (15 – 20.oF ) it’s considered the lower limit for salt to melt snow/ice but once H2O, even in the form of moist air (i.e. humidity) is added the freezing point is lowered and the saline solution(salt/water) will have an adverse effect on the vehicles paint and undercarriage.

Rail Dust - small particles of metal (ferrous oxide) created by railroad wheels abrading the metal tracks, these particles become airborne and pollutes paint film surfaces. New cars that are transported by rail are at extra risk. When moisture combines with the metal particles rust is formed, creating small rust spots, allied with acid rain they will cause the metal under the paint system to rust

Tree resin (sap) - appears like a dark brown/ rust red colour raised surface mark, some of the most common resinous tree sap types are: White Pine, Ponderosa Pine, Walnut (also secretes an oily residue) Maple, Oak, Popular, and Blue Spruce, none of which are water soluble, the acidic content of the sap will etch the paint surface; causing a concave surface.

Summary

Quite a formidable list but all these have a few things in common; they are all forms of environmental contamination and given the right catalyst; reactivity (heat) plus moisture, they will become acidic. During this process the metal absorbs oxygen from the water and forms iron oxide (rust). Given the porosity of paint they permeate the paint matrix down to body metal.

The good or at least better news is that an organic wax will provide a sacrificial barrier i.e. it provides (time) limited protection and also absorbs the acid, which can then be wiped off and then renewed. It should be noted that any wax subjected to an acidic attack (bird excrement, etc) must be removed without delay otherwise the paint surface will be compromised.

Sacrificial Barriers

Carnauba wax - molecules form a closed linked mesh like structure, which means that they only butt up together to protect the surface and the wax forms a shell like structure that adheres to the paint surface. When attacked by environmental elements they have to compromise the wax surface before they can reach the clear coat paint surface and cause surface etching.
Most organic waxes (Carnauba) and some inorganic wax (Collinite) are more resistant to environmental hazards then synthetics, although an Acrylic polymer offers limited resistance. Being a sacrificial coating, the best way to avoid clear coat etching is too remove the environmental acid, along with the wax as soon as it’s noticed; but given enough time acid will compromise the clear coat whatever its protection.

A nanotechnology coating - is formulated to be detergent and heat resistant (up to 500.oF) and then an organic wax over the coating, and this sacrificial barrier will provide protection by providing a limited resistance to acids along with washing the vehicles paint surface and replacing the organic wax on a regular basis.

Nanotechnology coatings even though they provide protection from some surface scratches do not protect a paint surface from acidic attack (G|Techniq Surface Coatings, Nanolex, Optimum Polymer Technologies, Opti-Coat G'zox Polymer Coatings and PPG CeramiClear™ ) nor do most polymer sealants,(the exception is an Acrylic polymer) or waxes (organic or synthetic)

Clear film vinyl wrap - an effective deterrent to environmental acidic contaminants, once the paint film surface has been decontaminated, is to apply a vinyl paint wrap they are becoming an increasingly popular aftermarket accessory, changing the look of a car as well as preserving the original paint from chips and scratches as well as environmental damage. It has many other advantages. For one, you basically save time and money on repairs normally requiring bodywork repairs such as paint chips, car getting keyed, scrapes and scuffs, etc, as the film protects you from all that and keeps the car original and body repair work-free.

Be cognizant that any paint surface that is subjected to an acidic attack (bird excrement, etc) the acid residue must be removed without delay otherwise the paint surface will be compromised, along with washing and regularly decontaminating the vehicles paint surface (Cquartz Iron X) and replacing the sacrificial organic wax on a regular basis.

Durability - although you cannot equate a products beading ability to protection and durability, if an applied product continues to `bead' water, one wash after another, then that would prove that whatever it is that is causing high surface tension is not washing off. Note- dust and road soil will also have a negative impact on ‘water beading’. This is often mistaken as ‘wax / sealant failure
In terms of durability the consensus of opinion is that a nanotechnology coating, followed by a polymer sealant, a synthetic wax and last of all an organic wax, but then it does provide the best sacrificial barrier

• Brand loyalty
• Popularity
• Ease of application
Are all personal preferences?


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Since I have been banned from this forum,I cannot post a response. The author TOWGT is a person with alot of knowledge and education as you can tell. Although what useful info does this article offer me as a detailer?

He makes this statement: "What’s the best wax or sealant? Is there a best? In my opinion- No!While it’s true many of the chemicals used in the formulation of car care products are the same (or at least very similar)."


"Ultimately the best wax or sealant will prove to be the one that best meets its user's objectives. If a product is not working for you experiment until you find one that’s suitable for your needs"



He does a great job explaining all the bad things that destroy a clear coat,
and the different types of products on the market today.Although, what does this
article offer?



"Quite a formidable list but all these have a few things in common; they are all forms of environmental contamination and given the right catalyst; reactivity (heat) plus moisture, they will become acidic. During this process the metal absorbs oxygen from the water and forms iron oxide (rust). Given the porosity of paint they permeate the paint matrix down to body metal".Ok

"In terms of durability the consensus of opinion is that a nanotechnology coating, followed by a polymer sealant, a synthetic wax and last of all an organic wax, but then it does provide the best sacrificial barrier".Also,
remember this:"It should be noted that any wax subjected to an acidic attack (bird excrement, etc) must be removed without delay otherwise the paint surface will be compromised." Gee, like that will happen when it is 40 below zero!


Now let me get this straight.I have to apply a polymer sealant,followed by a synthetic wax, and last an organic wax to protect my customers paint.This
advice makes about as much sense as putting a screen door on a submarine.



TOWGT has 30 years as a chemical engineer, and this is the information that these gurus offer on these forums.


I offer a one coat solution that truly protects,offers a awesome shine, and I show you where to buy at for a dirt cheap price. You would think people would appreciate the info, and say thanks for the info.No way, just insults,getting banned,and total indifference.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2011 12:50AM by billd55.
Re: What does this article tell me? I am really not sure?
March 18, 2011 02:17PM
I dont think that Towgt is saying that you need 4 coats of 4 different products. Hes just listing the durability of 4 different products from best to worst. He also mentions arcylics, and he does say its the best , but none of the products are perfect.
Re: What does this article tell me? I am really not sure?
March 18, 2011 04:40PM
It is factual, documented, scientificaly proven technical information.

As Larry stated, it does not "promote" any brand of product.

This is information is much the same proven set of facts which I presented in industry magazine articles going back to the mid and late 90's.

Yet, some continue to only read and understand that what fits their personal agendas.

These agendas may be their "processes", their choice of products, etc, but in fact it usually just ends up being "their ego trip".

This situation of some promoting only their agenda's, refusing to accept lab test results by accredited independant labs, ASTM standards of testing, etc has been going on for decades and feel sure it will continue to be.

Just the result of ego driven people in the industry.
Re: What does this article tell me? I am really not sure?
March 18, 2011 06:51PM
Larry

You may be right on that point.

Ron

You can think what you want,and if you think what I am saying here is all about ego.Well you are wrong. I am not trying to speak to you. I am trying to speak to detailers that do detailing for a living. To give them a different perspective.

You state this:This is information is much the same proven set of facts which I presented in industry magazine articles going back to the mid and late 90's.

Well Ron, what proven facts does this article offer? That these over priced products that are basically the same thing that are repackaged over and over under some new name offer nothing but a short term shine. Also, some may stand up to highers temps and are detergent resistant, but what else?The reason Larry is not endorsing a product because they are basically the same.

Your ego will not allow you to believe that someone else could make a product
that really does offer true protection. I presented facts and data to prove
my point. You ignore them and cling to your opinion.

Here is my proof: :[www.slideshare.net]. Wheres yours that shows I am wrong.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2011 08:27PM by billd55.
Re: What does this article tell me? I am really not sure?
March 19, 2011 07:56AM
Bill, Bill:

Why are you always confronting people who are experts in the field, far more than you.

Ron Ketcham has had more experience in this industry than you have been alive. He has had experience as an operator in both the collision repair and auto detailing industries; he has had experience in the detail chemical industry working with numerous detail chemical companies and in recent years working directly with the auto manufacturers to develop products for their auto mobiles that meet their tested and specific requirements.

For the life of me, I cannot understand how you believe you can challenge the expertise of a person like this.

Regards
Re: What does this article tell me? I am really not sure?
March 19, 2011 02:54PM
Bud

What are these people you mention? Gods.I am sorry to offend anyone, but I have a brain and I am college educated.

What am I exactly challenging them on? I have said too many times to mention that I agree completely that what they say about the products they have experience with are factual.No problem with that.

In Larry's article what have I said that was wrong in your opinion? Please answer?Ron and Larry both state that most products are basically the same in nature.I totally agree.Larry says:"Detailing enthusiasts consider shine as only one attribute of a protective wax or sealant. They are equally concerned with; ease of application, resistance to abrasion, atmospheric contamination and weathering". I agree with that also.

What I do have a problem with is the way the term "protection" is used by the industry.Larry states:"Detailing enthusiasts consider shine as only one attribute of a protective wax or sealant",but "They are equally concerned with; ease of application, resistance to abrasion, atmospheric contamination and weathering".


Why is it that shine is the only attribute of a protective wax or sealant? My guess is because the products that the industry has provided forever only offer
that.Although, he does say:"They are equally concerned with,resistance to abrasion, atmospheric contamination and weathering".

Larry makes this statement:"The good or at least better news is that an organic wax will provide a sacrificial barrier i.e. it provides (time) limited protection and also absorbs the acid, which can then be wiped off and then renewed. It should be noted that any wax subjected to an acidic attack (bird excrement, etc) must be removed without delay otherwise the paint surface will be compromised."
Gee, after how many years, this is the best the industry has to offer as far
protection goes.

Bud, for the life of me, I cannot understand why you and many others cannot
understand that durability is not protection. These products offer zero protection from the sun by larry's own words, and limited protection at best
from the rest of the bad things( also larry's own words).


It is clear from larry's own statement that protection is important to most people in a product.Gina wonders:Why are so many Detailing Businesses Failing or having difficulty? CAN ANYONE HERE SEE THAT MAYBE CUSTOMERS WANT MORE THAN SHINE
FROM A DETAIL?


I am trying to tell people that a product exists that will protect your customers paint finish,and Bob feels that his liking for potato chips is more important.
Bud you make this statement to Bob:"Who is the expert about what the car needs, you or the customer?

Why do you say, "what the customer wants?" If you know the sealant is better and it is about the same price, more or less as a wax, why not sell only the sealant as the protection step? "

This really shows how little you know.I read Larry's article and I see this , and you read it and you see nothing.MY GOD, what is the difference? They are all the same products.

Truly I understand why many of you think AT-5 is no different from the products
you use, I guess if I had used these products I would have been out of this business years ago.

Many here say I am challenging the experts. I think of it as analyzing what they
say. Others say I have an agenda. That is true. Hopefully some here will get it
and offer their customers something more than just a shiny car.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2011 03:36PM by billd55.
Re: What does this article tell me? I am really not sure?
March 20, 2011 12:00AM
Bill, are you saying that you dont like potato chips?
Re: What does this article tell me? I am really not sure?
March 20, 2011 03:55PM
You missed it completely. What I was referring to was the tech side of the article.
I could care less what product one uses as long as it is not harmful to the user or the vehicle.
The chemistry of fallout, iron oxides, bird droppings, acid rain, etc is what more need to be educated regarding and then utilize that knowledge to make more professional sales presentations to potential customers.

Just one more bullet in the gun to provide a professional image to customers and make them stand out from the hacker in the back alley.
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