Zaino Bros.

Zaino Test Update :
After two tunnel/toweling washes in a car wash that uses a strong acid solution ( 564: 1 or something like that ), the Z-2 is still beading water well.
It has been over 4.5 months now.
Doug

Zaino Z-2 Test Update :
After 5 months and 3 acid/alkali toweling automatic tunnel car washes, the Zaino is still holding up. This has included countless washes with EZ Suds by AutoMagic. The maker recommends only washing with Zaino's car wash concentrate.

This product performs well in all areas ( shine, durability, ease of application, ease of wiping off, abscence of powdery residue, resistance to harsh automatic car wash chemicals, non-abrasiveness, maintaining shine, slickness etc. ).

If I were a pro detailer, intent on doing the best detail money could buy, I would use this product. It consistantly rates #1... except with people who are selling competing products.

Doug

Here is a quote from a member of the Autopia forum, on the zaino products he used with good results :

" I let my coat of ZAIO dry fairly long. Off with easy, and a great look alone. Next, I applied the Z5. Again, let it dry long. Buffed off even easier, and looked superb!

Now on to CS...what a COOL product. 5 minutes to do the entire car, looked awesome drying, and now looks great. I think a Z8 top is in order tomorrow! "

NOTE : The products the guy is referring to are AIO ( All In One one-step product ), Z-5 ( a swirl-hiding sealant ), Clear Seal ( a new set-and-forget top coat sealant ) and Z-8 ( a gloss enhancing spray ). He did not use any ZFX additive because it is not needed for this procedure.
Doug

Zaino had only a 21.7% increase in reflective shine. Using a Glossometer the surface read 70.44 and after Zaino application it read 85.74.

Compared to Klasse which was 64.42 up to 89.4 or a 32.8% increase.

Or, TST 5000 which was 68.55 up to 90.87 or a 32.6% increase.

DURABILITY

Out of 25 products after 12 washings Zaino was 14th in decrease of shine a 1.21% decrease compared with Zymol which had a 5.16 increase in gloss

CORROSION RESISTENCE

Zaino and DIAMOND PLUS were both #1 of 25 products.

Your tests are without validity just opinions.

Bud :
Your test is not valid for the reasons I've posted repeatedly. You have a financial interest in knocking Zaino as do almost all of its critics. Nothing you and other competitors say against Zaino tallies with my tests or the experience of other users. As Walter Brennan's character on T.V. used to say, " No brag-just fact ".

BTW- Unless the product has aggressive cleaners, how can you expect an increase in gloss on an old single-stage paint ? If you used Z-2 in your test, you used a product that is supposed to seal, not clean and polish. No wonder it didn't increase gloss a lot. To increase gloss, you should first compound and polish. Only after that, should you apply the Z-2...but you knew that already.
In case you misunderstood my last post, I quoted a guy on Autopia's forum. Those were his findings or "opinions" not mine. His story was not part of my test.
We've already established that your test's twelve washings were done with way more than recommended amounts of car wash concentrate and therefore do not correlate with the real world. But here we go again with your test...Zaino's own car wash concentrate is the one the maker wants used with the product. If you do what I do ( follow the directions ), you won't need a glossometer-you'll need sunglasses !
In Vietnam, missiles that worked great in a lab test, failed in the real world skies over Hanoi. The same thing happened in the Falklands War with anti-aircraft missiles. The real world is the place to test. As a wise man said, " The proof of the pudding is in the eating. "
Doug



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2007 08:44PM by Doug Delmont.

Bud :
Some of the questionable areas of your test are :
1) The failure to disclose the name of the lab that did the test on the copy of the test you provide.
2) The use of some samples provided without their instructions and the consequent application of these samples contrary to the makers instructions.
Who knows how that might change the results !??
3) The " apples and oranges " testing of one-step products ( cleaner/polish/wax in one bottle ) against pure waxes that are intended to be used after a seperate polish is used.
4) Dependence on a glossometer in spite of Consumer Reports' claim that the glossometer may not indicate what will look glossiest to the human eye.
5) Measuring how well a wax prevents corrosion on bare metal panels may have zero relevance to a wax's performance on vehicle paint.
6) Testing conducted on an old single-stage paint job may not be relevant to use on new clearcoats.
7) The washing test conducted with an overly stong solution to accelerate the effects ( could skew the results many ways ).
8) The test is not independent but was financed and commissioned by Detail Plus.
9) The use of samples provided by detailers, sometimes without the instructions in at least part of the test. There is no way to verify that the substance a detailer sent you was fresh, pure or even authentic.

Your test did not comparison test the final resulting gloss after polishing and waxing. Guru Reports and Consumer Reports do this.
Your test could have easily have been set up to assure that your product won.

Doug

Doug

Just posted so that you would have someone to post to, besides yourself.

Bud

Good to see you are still with us, Bud. If you check the "Where's Bud ? " thread, you'll find Larry waiting up for you back in the old mansion with only a candle for light. (LOL)

On a more serious note, I tried out some more Zaino products today. The car is a 2001 Chevy Cavalier with the original red paint. Here's what I did :
1) Trip through acid/alkali automatic towel car wash.
2) Attempt to remove tar from rocker panels with Turpentine
3) Removed tar with Lifter #1 tar remover ( for heaven's sake wear gloves ).
4) Hand washed lower areas.
5) Clayed horizontal panels with Malm's Deracer clay and NeeToo spray. ( Don't be impatient. We'll get to the Zaino part soon ).
6) Polished with Zaino Fusion, using a PC 7424 orbital and a yellow Meguiar's foam pad. ( seemed to be a fine cut polish with no splatter and easy wipe-off. Can't tell if it is more aggressive than Griot's Machine Polish #3 )
7) Applied Zaino All-In-One with PC and a finishing pad from some company.
8) Applied Z-5 sealant to one half of the car for comparison testing. ( Z-5 seemed to deepen and darken the shine )
9) Dressed the tires with Zaino Perfect Tire Shine ( lookin' good !).
10) First-class results-must remember to put Z-5 on the remaining half...
Doug
P.S. To be sure the test was scientific, I wore a lab coat and used the word, "protocols" a lot. (LOL)

I remembered to Z-5 the rest of the Cavalier.

I terminated the Z-2 test today, after about 5.5 months. The Zaino was still there but the water beads were uneven, the finish felt rough and road film had stained it badly. I applied Z-AIO with the PC 7424 to remove the stains and wax the paint. The AIO applied by hand required too much rubbing to clean away the stains.

Barry Meguiar at www.meguiars.com has three videos posted, one of which tells you how to test waxes yourself---- without a glossometer !
Doug

Doug, maybe if you give Bud some Z5 he'll give you some Diamond Plus

Larry-
The Z-5 is cheaper than the Diamond Plus ( $16.95 for Z-5 versus $22.95 for DP ), so I think I'd be taking advantage of Bud on that trade. Did I forget to mention that the Z-5 is 8 ounces and the Diamond Plus is a gallon ( could be why it costs more than the Z-5 ). LOL

Anyway, I'm not parting with my Z-5. I may buy some Diamond Plus anyway. Stay tuned.
Doug

Note-
There are numerous reviews of Zaino on www.epinions.com . All but one rated Zaino highly and that one bad review appeared to be from someone who misunderstood the instructions etc. I toss out that one bad review and see nothing but four and five star 'epinions'.
Doug

Gentlemen-
I finally tried out the Z-6 gloss enhancer, spritzing a little onto a wet car as I toweled it dry. The product added slickness and made the towel glide. The stuff felt slicker than competing products from 3M and Meguiar's ( Quik Detailer and Final Inspection ). I think it is even slicker than Griot's Speed Shine.

The real surprise was an apparent big improvement in gloss after the drying operation was completed.
So far, I'm surprised at how good Z-6 is.
The product can be used as a detail spray or a clay lubricant. The company recomments using Z-7 car wash as a clay lube to save money, though.
Doug

Members-
Here is a link to a Zaino vs. Meguiar's thread and test run on another forum.
The upshot was that Meguiar's products produced initial results equal to Zaino's. Durability was not tested nor was loss of shine after a few weeks.

Draw your own conclusions. I was surprised to see so many people posting make up their minds based on this test without wanting to try Zaino for themselves.
I care about durability and my experiance tells me there is no contest between Meguiar's and Zaino for lasting shine.

[www.m5board.com]
Doug



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2007 11:23PM by Doug Delmont.

Doug:

How do you determine the competency of a dentist or a doctor?

Regards
Bud Abraham

Bud-
Sorry but I don't understand your question as it relates to the wax test I linked . Please clarify.

Generally, though, I check the doctor's knowlege against my limited knowlege. If he told me not to worry about chest pain, I would doubt his competence ( hypothetical example only ).

Doug

Bud-
You asked how I determine the competence of a dentist.
ANSWER : I check for wax residue in the cracks and crevices of my teeth, swirl marks and missed areas...Just habit I guess ! ( IN FUN )

Doug

Hi all-

I'm a 49-yr old married female who recently purchased a new 2007 Honda
Accord. I plan to keep this car for a very long time, so I researched
several of the major auto detailing forums. I spent quite a while lurking
here learning a lot from all you guys about products, tools, and application.
I'm not a professional detailer. I made a decision to use Zaino because it
seemed to provide superior protection and long term durability. I have severe
fibromyalgia and can't spend hours detailing my car every weekend.

Although I was a little nervous about some of the postings about some
people having problems with the application of Zaino, I made a large
order and forged ahead. My 20-yr old son and I detailed the car on
Mother's Day. Here's what we did:
Z-18 Clayed car with Z7/water mix in spray bottle
Z-6
Z-AIO w/ZFX- mixed 1 oz w/4 drops
Z-6
Z-2pro w/ZFX- mixed 1 oz w/4 drops & used half (used on
everything incl glass)
Z-6
Z-2pro w/ZFX- used most of the rest
Z-6
Z-16 on tires
Next day:
Z-CS on everything
Z-8

Honestly, it was unbelievably easy. I carefully followed all the
directions given, especially the ones you all gave to apply sparingly,
and it was a piece of cake. If a middle aged woman who has never done
anything except wash a car before can do this, anyone can do this. My son
did not lend any expertise, he only lent muscle power. I actually had to
teach him the proper washing and application principles, since he had
some bad habits he'd picked up. He was a very willing student though!

The car is unbelievable! I didn't expect that much, since it is the
Desert Mist Metallic (kind of goldeny beige) color, but you can
literally see yourself in it like a mirror. The reflection is
something else. The paint finish feels smooth as glass! The claying
really helped, taking the finish from good to superbly smooth. It's
just incredible! I now carry a spray bottle of diluted car wash, a 2
oz spray bottle of Z-6 and some towels in the car so I can get the bug
guts and birdie doo right away when I see it.

I just wanted to thank you all for the help you have been. I couldn't find
anyone locally that I felt I could trust with my new car (based on what I'd
learned here). I'm pretty perfectionistic about things being done right, and
I didn't want my paint ruined! So I did it myself, with help from you all!
Again, I can't thank you enough!

Carla Botiller

Good for you Carla. What you did is hardly what a professional would call detailing.

You did a fine job of maintaining your new vehicle. If you keep a coat of wax on the finish every 30 to 60 days you should have no problem with the paint.

Condition the leather on the seating surfaces and put a water based silicone dressing on the vinyl on the interior and you should keep the interior in good condition too.

For appearance you can use the same dressing on the tires as you wish. Do not use solvent based (clear) dressing on the tires as the solvent will mix with the carbon black and sling off on to the car and possibly cause paint damage.

Great job.

Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS

Dear Bud,

Thanks for your reply. I sure didn't mean to compare what I did to a professional detail job. I used the P21S cleaner on the wheels before I used the Z-16 tire dressing. We didn't do the interior- that will be next weekend. I have the 303 Aerospace Protectant that I'll be using on the interior vinyl, and I have the deep tinted windows that will help. I don't have leather seats. I'm thinking of using the 303 High Tech Fabric Guard on the upholstery for protection (kids grown, no grandkids yet). What do you think?

Thanks.
Carla

LBHonda-
Thanks for your kind words. 303 products are well-respected, of course. If you use their protectant on the dash, you should condider wiping it immediately with a dry cloth to produce a less-reflective finish, one that won't make the dash show up in the windshield.

You do not need to add ZFX to the AIO.
You can use the Z-16 tire dressing to dress the wheel wells and interior vinyl if you wish...

Bud's advice is generally correct except that Zaino lasts over 6 months in most cases so you don't have to wax again unless you want to clean/polish away road film staining. I'm willing to say you "detailed" your exterior, BTW.

I'm glad you like Zaino as much as I do. New participants like you give fresh perspectives to this forum. Keep posting !
Doug

Carla :
If you check your Honda owner's manual, I believe you will find that Honda advises against routine use of wheel cleaners like the P21s product you used. Even gentle wheel cleaners are harsher than car wash soap. If you wash the wheels often, you probably won't need to use wheel cleaner.

You asked about 303 fabric protector. I've never used it but...
The best way to protect your interior fabric is to drape an old bedsheet over the driver's seat when you leave the car at a repair shop. You can also leave a rag for the mechanic to wipe his hands on. You can slip the floor mat into a dry-cleaning bag to protect it.
As soon as you get the car out of the shop, remove any grease marks from the interior before they have a chance to set.
Hope that's helpful.
Doug

Doug-
Thank you so much for your helpful tips. I did use the Z-2pro and Z-CS on the wheels and plan to wash with Z-7 every 2 weeks unless it needs it sooner for some reason, so I won't use the P21s. I've read the owner's manual, but it's a lot to absorb and remember. Should I use the Z-16 on the wheel wells?

So you really think it's probably not necessary to do the protectant on the upholstery then, right? That is a great tip about the sheet and the dry cleaning bag when I take the car in for servicing (which with the Honda, hopefully won't be too often :} ). I did use some of the 303 Protectant on the vinyl yesterday and wiped the excess off with the towel and buffed.

I really appreciate the time you've taken to answer my questions so I can properly care for my car, especially since I know you guys are pros and are very busy. Any other tips or suggestions you (or anyone else) have to send my way would also be very welcome.

Thanks again,
Carla

Carla-
Using Z-16 on the wheel wells is purely optional. I've experimented with various products on wheel wells and have no firm preference.

I don't personally use any stain-repellant stuff on fabric but I doubt it will do any harm so go ahead and try it. I use a carpet shampoo that has a stain guard chemical in it.

The best "tip" I can give you is to wash the car with plenty of soapy water, rinsing often to avoid grinding dirt against the finish. Micro-scratching is to be taken seriously.

Doug

Doug-
Thanks for the reply. I use plenty of soapy water to wash the car, rinsing it often; I use the 2 five gallon buckets with the grit guards in each one. One has the soapy water and the other just regular to rinse the dirty mitts in before putting them back in the soapy water. If the water seems too dirty I dump it and get fresh. I try my best to make sure I don't scratch the surface of the paint with grit or dust or anything. I've tried to put into practice any tip I've learned here or elsewhere that will help me protect my car's finish. I figure that carefully cleaning and protecting the finish on my car (even if I spend a lot on products) is the cheapest thing I can do to insure the longevity of the finish. Kind of like changing the oil is for the engine. Thanks a bunch. I'll be lurking and learning.
Carla

Hi all-

I'm 35 year-old-man and very interested in the auto detailing.
I've used some brand products such as Meguires(NTX), Sonax(eXtream) and Zymol(titanium).
At this time, I ordered the Zaino total kit and expect to deliver it soon.

After applying it on my car colored black, I'll tell you my opinion.

I think we should remember that what we see is not all such as water beading, shine and durability. Who knows the influence the Wax or sealant makes on the paint.
The protection from outside is important but the enemy might be inside.


Kim

Kim -
You'll be pleased with Zaino. If you have any problems, post here and I'll try to help you. Otherwise, you can phone the company and actually talk to Sal Zaino himself.
If I understand your statement about wax and paint correctly, you are wondering (1) what hidden effects wax has on paint and (2) whether paint can fail for internal reasons unrelated to wax.
Meguiar's talks a lot about polishing oils nourishing the paint but I suspect that these oils only wet the paint temporarily to improve the shine.
Many companies attempt to scare customers away from competitors by implying that certain ingredients harm paint. So far, the claims have all turned out to be false.
Defective paint can peel, crack or rust out from underneath even if waxed properly.
Post again and let us know how the Zaino kit works on your car. As Dick Griot says, " Have fun in your garage ! "
BTW : I hope you read the final revision of my big post on the "glass cleaning" thread. It has quotes of 30 forum members compiled and edited.
Doug



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2007 09:38PM by Doug Delmont.

Doug-

Thanks for your comment.

Meguiar(NTX) is too dust-adhesive.

I'm wondering how Zaino is on that point.



Kim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2007 04:37AM by Y.J. Kim.

Kim-
[ some irrelevant material removed by edit ]
I did not have any problem with NXT collecting dust when I tested it. I suspect you may have had an anomoly, perhaps caused by a lot of static electricity or something on a particular car.
Zaino does not collect dust in my experiance and the various products produce little or no dust when buffed or wiped off. You'll like it.
Doug



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2007 01:49AM by Doug Delmont.

Doug

His name is Mr Kim, call him "Kim" is like me calling you, "Delmont."